Defra now looking at capping SFI

Steevo · Feb 7, 2024

spin cycle said:
defra could stipulate no more than a certain % of a holding be eligible i suppose?....then there's the 'can of worms'.....are sfi entitlements created? can they be traded? and so on

better ,imo, if the budget is exceeded that payments are modulated.....be no different to market fluctuations for commodities

Bit tricky if the cost of doing an option like wild bird seed mix exceeded the modulated payment offered by the government.

farmerm · Feb 7, 2024

Goffer said:
Just announced

That's about electric cars and wind turbines and green industry. Labour have not given much though to agriculture...

Hindsight · Feb 7, 2024

farmerm said:
Ah I see what I was missing... best I can claim without permanent bird food is more like £160/ac farm average and that taking a lot more land out of production too. I am forgetting we are half permanent pasture, with rather less attractive actions on offer. It illustrates what was already known, SFI is robbing the livestock farmers share of the BPS budget to give to the arable boys.... its almost like another cog in an intentional conspiracy to end ruminant meat production!

I thought SAM3 Herbal Ley is the grassland farmers AHL2 followed by AHL1. SAM3 plus SAM1is effectively almost double BPS - am I missing something?

farmerm · Feb 7, 2024

Hindsight said:
I thought SAM3 Herbal Ley is the grassland farmers AHL2 followed by AHL1. SAM3 plus SAM1is effectively almost double BPS - am I missing something?

I am going to try a bit of Sam3, area might grown in future, a bit... I have yet to hear of Sam3 making good hay... Like much grassland our grassland is so for a reason, there are areas that are too steep, too wet or too heavy which I think significantly limits where I can use it, but will see what I learn this year. Plus I have SSSI intersections on parcels which blocks me from SAM3... the parcels are not even in the SSSI :scratchhead:

I think the SSSI map and the parcel map are draw differently and the SSSI map overlaps on the bends.

Hindsight · Feb 7, 2024

farmerm said:
I am going to try a bit of Sam3, area might grown in future, a bit... I have yet to hear of Sam3 making good hay... Like much grassland our grassland is so for a reason, there are areas that are too steep, too wet or too heavy which I think significantly limits where I can use it, but will see what I learn this year. Plus I have SSSI intersections on parcels which blocks me from SAM3... the parcels are not even in the SSSI I think the SSSI map and the parcel map are draw differently and the SSSI map overlaps on the bends.

Ah, understand with the additional info.

SSSI designation. Under CSS parcels adjacent to a parcel containing a SSSI had restrictions on certain options. This may apply in SFI as well - though I have not come across this and thus not checked.

farmerm · Feb 7, 2024

Hindsight said:
Ah, understand with the additional info.

SSSI designation. Under CSS parcels adjacent to a parcel containing a SSSI had restrictions on certain options. This may apply in SFI as well - though I have not come across this and thus not checked.

I do not believe is is an issue with being adjacent, the parcel I have put some SAM3 on an adjacent... the computer sees the SSSI crossing inside parcels that are not in the sssi. Its not a problem for now, I only found out whilst testing out a few different scenarios.

Hindsight · Feb 7, 2024

farmerm said:
I do not believe is is an issue with being adjacent, the parcel I have put some SAM3 on an adjacent... the computer sees the SSSI crossing inside parcels that are not in the sssi. Its not a problem for now, I only found out whilst testing out a few different scenarios.

Look closely at the HEFER - in the summary table will list land parcels affected - possibly the designation just as you say sneaks into another parcel.

Adeptandy · Feb 7, 2024

Bury the Trash said:
the plumbing would be enjoyable but dealing with (some ) of the people/customers would not be fun .

After several years even the enjoyment fades, believe me.
The lure of the £ against the constant demands c as n wear thin and the longing to hide away in the farm gets greater every year.

Sonoftheheir · Feb 8, 2024

I blame @Clive putting 50% of his farmed area in. Everything was rosey till that.

serf · Feb 8, 2024

Steevo said:
Or even a ‘pilot’ perhaps?!

It must have been ' autopilot' with no one in the cockpit then .....

DairyNerd · Feb 8, 2024

Not surprised they are looking at capping it, the CSS options were too restrictive to bother with, these are so vague that a lot are viewing it as free money. BPS was around for too long and built businesses that now rely on it opposed to incentivising building profitable businesses.

Once again congratulations DEFRA, a great opportunity to implement a well thought out, balanced and easily regulated agricultural policy completely wasted.

Clive · Feb 8, 2024

Sonoftheheir said:
I blame @Clive putting 50% of his farmed area in. Everything was rosey till that.

33% actually

uk arable needs a consistent, reliable break crop with reasonable gross margin - you can’t blame an arable farmer for taking that option when it’s presented to them and particularly when it will also improve soil health and cut input use on the cash crops

i’m simply doing what defra have encouraged me to do

Steevo · Feb 8, 2024

Clive said:
33% actually

uk arable needs a consistent, reliable break crop with reasonable gross margin - you can’t blame an arable farmer for taking that option when it’s presented to them and particularly when it will also improve soil health and cut input use on the cash crops

i’m simply doing what defra have encouraged me to do

Not only have DEFRA encouraged you to enter SFI, but the government have also made consistent, reliable break crops almost impossible to grow in this country due to legislative choices, most especially in terms of chemicals and insecticides thus discouraging the growing of them.

It's just laughable (but not entirely surprising) that Mark Spencer sought to shift the responsibility and deflect it straight back onto farmers. It's what politicians do.

Clive · Feb 8, 2024

4course said:
reckon if you havnt already submitted an agreement proposal and or got it signed and sealed if you are considering taking whole fields or larger areas out of ag production and into some bird seed butterfly mix you burn the midnight oil tonight and get it done . cos it could be that the rules will change fairly quickly

lol ….. it’s took 7 years to get here, i doubt anything is going to happen fast

Jo28 · Feb 8, 2024

Clive said:
if they bring in a cap my guess that it would more likely come via the treasury than DEFRA ......... ie put more than 50% of your farm in to none trading actions and you will loose IHT benefit ......... that would limit uptake !

as things stand I believe there is more than enough budget, SFI isn't attractive on good land thats farmed efficiently in my view hense why sentiment towards it is divided - productive land farmers are upset and they are loosing subs they didn't actually need but those on more marginal land are happy to be paid to produce lower risk crops for a different market

food security doesn't matter one jot in this - imports are the cheapest way for the government to feed the nation and fulfill environmental commitments its signed up to and we are already 47% dependant upon them before sfi, like it or not importing our food is the cheapest and easiest option for the politicians

nothing in sfi isn't reversible within a cropping year should a WW2 "dig for victory" situation happen again (V unlikely !) .......... but even with 100% of the uk producing food we are miles from self sufficient anyway

you are wrong about sfi not being attractive on good land. yes none of the options compare with winter wheat but the break crops are so poor these days that sfi is looking increasingly more attractive. we are thinking of taking out of production around 25% with different options all on grade 1 and 2 land.

redsloe · Feb 8, 2024

delilah said:
edit: And they can start with the cr@p that shouldn't be in there anyway. Random example, the DD sub.

Why?
Anything that reduces the burning of fossil fuels should be encouraged whether it be carrot or stick.

We have decided its not the cows right?

Levelsman · Feb 8, 2024

It's just laughable (but not entirely surprising) that Mark Spencer sought to shift the responsibility and deflect it straight back onto farmers. It's what politicians do.
[/QUOTE]

The govt. are good at bowling Googlies - but where are our Batters?
NFU - the silence is deafening! Should be jumping on this.
Membership renewal not paid, and unlikely to be at this rate.

fudge · Feb 8, 2024

Clive said:
lol ….. it’s took 7 years to get here, i doubt anything is going to happen fast

Payment rates could be reduced immediately. They were increased at the very point arable returns were falling quite steeply. The whole idea is based on income forgone. It could be argued that taxpayers representatives were ignoring their duty to those taxpayers if they didn’t reduce payment rates going forward.

delilah · Feb 8, 2024

redsloe said:
Why?
Anything that reduces the burning of fossil fuels should be encouraged whether it be carrot or stick.

We have decided its not the cows right?

Because there is no public good in using public money to favour one form of crop establishment over others.

Of all the fossil fuel used in the food chain, 0.26% is used on farm. To perpetuate the notion that there is anything wrong our side of the farm gate is to divert attention from where the real damage is being caused and where the real action is needed.

Yes, we have decided it's not the cows. Neither is it the plough.

Clive · Feb 8, 2024

fudge said:
Payment rates could be reduced immediately. They were increased at the very point arable returns were falling quite steeply. The whole idea is based on income forgone. It could be argued that taxpayers representatives were ignoring their duty to those taxpayers if they didn’t reduce payment rates going forward.

the options i have taken mean i will forgo income of a cash crop on 3”a % of my farm - the payment rates reflect gross margin of decent crops so are basically income forgone ………. depending on input / output prices …….. which depends on year

ie OSR harvest 22 would have had a FAR better gross margin at the price i paid for N / crop sale price per tonne BUT harvedt 23 sold at much lower prices and grown with expensive N makes sfi look better

anyone got a crystal ball re use prices and input prices for the next 3 years ? !

all sfi is doing is giving a bit more certainty. as much as some may not trust DEFRA i trust the weather and global volatility even less these days !

Defra now looking at capping SFI

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100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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