Food security is a silly argument…

Mythoughts · Feb 25, 2024

Bury the Trash said:
i suppose that's a natural non comprehension by someone who has never had their food supply restricted, or know/have known people who had their food restricted, people close to them .

Because reality for the UK is that we have food security.its exceptionally robust. If you want to own your market do something people want

Mythoughts · Feb 25, 2024

Boysground said:
Half a mile from where i am sat there is an army camp. This morning it is heaving with people, very few in military uniform, tomorrow they will be and I will hear a lot of machine gun fire. In a few weeks time they will be back in Ukraine. Anyone who thinks we are not now at war is deluded.

Bg

Not a war that will impact on our food supply. The prices we get maybe but not food supply

Mythoughts · Feb 25, 2024

andybk said:
oh and another thing on carbon audits

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1761659402396799151

Population has increased and food supply has had to increase to provide for it. The destruction of pristine environment and the drive to produce hugely energy inefficient meat have contributed to climate disaster we are seeing rapidly unfold. When over 90% of animal biomass is farmed livestock then it’s easy to see one of the main causes.
Electric and hydrogen cars are evolving, huge money is being invested in cleaner flight fuels. Farming is being left behind because we don’t understand, don’t want to believe when we finally understand and are slow to respond when we do the first thing we should be thinking when we make a business decision is will this make climate/environment worse

livestock 1 · Feb 25, 2024

DownlandDiaspora said:
Perception and perspective are very different things. Generally individuals and old farmers see food security as an existential threat eg if we had a major war (see WW2) and we struggle to have enough food in the UK. Retailers and governments see food security along the lines of “are the supply routes secure, are the shelves full, are people happy”.

it is quite difficult to comprehend a time when UK food security could be challenged.

1. If there is a war then it’s nuclear and we’ll have bigger fish to fry
2. A major natural hazard, think Yellowstone eruption. Food production will be challenged for everyone for 5 - 10yrs
3. Negative impacts of climate change (most likely issue). Food efficiency will be the most important thing to resolve - say goodnight to intensively produced meat using cereals or on land that can grow cereal, pulses, oilseeds etc.

So what’s the point of this post? Bluntly, we need to stop banging on about food security or food miles. It’s a rubbish argument. We need to be embracing SFS, SFI and other schemes, accept we take taxpayer money and they call the tune and most Importantly get retailers, governments and consumers to measure efficiency of ag systems by environmental credentials eg carbon use, biodiversity gain rather than pure financial costs. We need to produce to standards that achieve these things which, by any measure, they don’t currently. Every farm should be completing a carbon and biodiversity account with profitability in those areas being prioritised. Taxpayer money can then go to those areas to make up the financial shortfalls.

Sounds like you are trying to justify taking taxpayers money for doing nothing in return
You won’t get that justification off me

Mythoughts · Feb 25, 2024

Jimdog1 said:
Do you not think that problems with the suez root from Southern hemisphere to North are not affecting food prices? Beef processors offering forward contracts priced way beyond anything currently achievable? A producer base fed up with ever more onerous compliance? You believe what you want but I believe we have reached a tipping point where home production could tumble.

You don’t have the faintest idea what onerous compliance looks like. We have it easy compared to any other food producing/processing system

Still Farming · Feb 25, 2024

Welcome new member with PLENTY to say.

JP1 · Feb 25, 2024

DownlandDiaspora said:
You don’t have the faintest idea what onerous compliance looks like. We have it easy compared to any other food producing/processing system

It should be "compared with"

Just saying

Mythoughts · Feb 25, 2024

Still Farming said:
Welcome new member with PLENTY to say.

Yep. I have loads to say, nice to challenge conventional thinking.

Still Farming · Feb 25, 2024

DownlandDiaspora said:
Yep. I have loads to say, nice to challenge conventional thinking.

Or try too possibly.

soapsud · Feb 25, 2024

DownlandDiaspora said:
Totally secure. Just clutching at straws there

Other countries will be competing with UK buyers to secure supply. That'll drive up food costs. Never mind our navy shepherding the safe delivery of it.

Mythoughts · Feb 25, 2024

JP1 said:
It should be "compared with"

Just saying

I shall keep that it mind. Over exuberance can sometimes impact negatively on sentence construction.

BrianV · Feb 25, 2024

DownlandDiaspora said:
Perception and perspective are very different things. Generally individuals and old farmers see food security as an existential threat eg if we had a major war (see WW2) and we struggle to have enough food in the UK. Retailers and governments see food security along the lines of “are the supply routes secure, are the shelves full, are people happy”.

it is quite difficult to comprehend a time when UK food security could be challenged.

1. If there is a war then it’s nuclear and we’ll have bigger fish to fry
2. A major natural hazard, think Yellowstone eruption. Food production will be challenged for everyone for 5 - 10yrs
3. Negative impacts of climate change (most likely issue). Food efficiency will be the most important thing to resolve - say goodnight to intensively produced meat using cereals or on land that can grow cereal, pulses, oilseeds etc.

So what’s the point of this post? Bluntly, we need to stop banging on about food security or food miles. It’s a rubbish argument. We need to be embracing SFS, SFI and other schemes, accept we take taxpayer money and they call the tune and most Importantly get retailers, governments and consumers to measure efficiency of ag systems by environmental credentials eg carbon use, biodiversity gain rather than pure financial costs. We need to produce to standards that achieve these things which, by any measure, they don’t currently. Every farm should be completing a carbon and biodiversity account with profitability in those areas being prioritised. Taxpayer money can then go to those areas to make up the financial shortfalls.

Food security is a relative subject, as we have seen before it only takes a few empty spaces on super market shelves for panic buying to occur which only results in wastage, supermarkets rely on just in time deliveries & it only takes a bottleneck or shortage somewhere in the world to upset the apple cart.
Those that can take advantage of this stupid SFI will & a certain amount will tinker around the edges, I think you can pretty much guarantee the Tories will have to come up with more "options" before an election if they are to have a chance in hell of getting back in number 10.

ski · Feb 25, 2024

I have noticed a pattern that those with a lot to say actually have very little to say worth listening to.

Still Farming · Feb 25, 2024

soapsud said:
Other countries will be competing with UK buyers to secure supply. That'll drive up food costs. Never mind our navy shepherding the safe delivery of it.

When we are bound down with rules,regs ,chemical laws, assurance schemes, traceability etc etc etc to name a few obstacles we in The UK have.

Ffermer Bach · Feb 25, 2024

DownlandDiaspora said:
Population has increased and food supply has had to increase to provide for it. The destruction of pristine environment and the drive to produce hugely energy inefficient meat have contributed to climate disaster we are seeing rapidly unfold. When over 90% of animal biomass is farmed livestock then it’s easy to see one of the main causes.
Electric and hydrogen cars are evolving, huge money is being invested in cleaner flight fuels. Farming is being left behind because we don’t understand, don’t want to believe when we finally understand and are slow to respond when we do the first thing we should be thinking when we make a business decision is will this make climate/environment worse

60% of UK land is best suited to grass production, and my cattle and sheep can turn grass that we can't digest into high quality food that we can, food that is high in Omega 3 fatty acids, low in Omega 6 and as my pastures are organic and diverse, the fat lambs I produce are nutrient dense with a range of micro nutrients. This meat is good quality and if you eat it, it is part of a healthy diet (as opposed to eating Carb rich food which leads to metabolic syndrome and diabetes). My rotationally grazed pastures also sequester carbon, as opposed to arable farming that at best does not build soil. Also, as an organic farmer who doesn't use fertliser (produced from natural gas), I certainly sequester more carbon, than ever I produce.

soapsud · Feb 25, 2024

DownlandDiaspora said:
Population has increased and food supply has had to increase to provide for it. The destruction of pristine environment

By building on green spaces?

DownlandDiaspora said:
and the drive to produce hugely energy inefficient meat have contributed to climate disaster

Only pigs and chickens have increased worldwide in the last 20 years and they're reared indoors intensively.

DownlandDiaspora said:
we are seeing rapidly unfold. When over 90% of animal biomass is farmed livestock then it’s easy to see one of the main causes.

Look at AHDB and compared weight of livestock compared with all crops harvested, horticultural and otherwise.

DownlandDiaspora said:
Electric and hydrogen cars are evolving, huge money is being invested in cleaner flight fuels.

Links?

DownlandDiaspora said:
Farming is being left behind because we don’t understand, don’t want to believe when we finally understand and are slow to respond when we do the first thing we should be thinking when we make a business decision is will this make climate/environment worse

Farmers are fine. It's the NGO influencers and other hare brained chit-chatters that are causing EU farmers to protest.

Bury the Trash · Feb 25, 2024

DownlandDiaspora said:
Because reality for the UK is that we have food security.its exceptionally robust. If you want to own your market do something people want

I would nt want to panic anyone or burst anyones comfortable but false sense of security fact is this Countrys' food security is actually pretty poor compared to others i know of.

ands it not to hard see on a quick to look around and see that people don't know what they want let alone what they need.
Nor do they have a clue at how it all works or where stuff comes from.
Its all Heading towards the Perfect storm.

Kidds · Feb 25, 2024

DownlandDiaspora said:
Yep. I have loads to say, nice to challenge conventional thinking.

I'd describe it as talking bollox

Boysground · Feb 25, 2024

DownlandDiaspora said:
Not a war that will impact on our food supply. The prices we get maybe but not food supply

The attacking of ships in the red sea is certainly affecting our food supply. It wouldn’t take much for there for the supply of grain out of the black sea to stop completely, that may not directly affect us but it would indirectly. Let alone conflict spreading outside of Ukraine.

Bg

Bury the Trash · Feb 25, 2024

yeah them houthys hadnt better disrupt my cup o' tea supply eles all heck will break loose

Food security is a silly argument…

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100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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