Food security is a silly argument…

[Swarfmonkey]

If the OP thinks food security is a silly argument he should have spent time out in Africa in '08, as my older brother did, when the food riots were kicking off. It might make him reconsider the importance of food security.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

If the OP thinks food security is a silly argument he should have spent time out in Africa in '08, as my older brother did, when the food riots were kicking off. It might make him reconsider the importance of food security.

“Every society is three meals away from chaos”​

― Vladimir Lenin

 

[JP1]

Time to roll this one out again :

 

[thorpe]

Had lunch with a non farming friend today who believes food security isnt a problem, reckons half the population are too fat and ought to eat less
anyway ,and we still waste tons of good food. He thought the welsh farmers have had loads of subsidy over the years and should of got their house in order by now. He hasnt seen any rubbish tractors at the demo's from around the uk or eu either. We have to agree to disagree when we get together. I dont think importing cheap food and goods while destroying ways of life and industry in the uk is a good thing, work is good for the soul. I dont think importing from countries ignoring pollution etc just to make our figures look good is the future either, we are a tiny island that isnt going to make a mark in reduced world emissions regardless of how deep we cut. If people want the country to go full rewilding then man is top of the food chain and should have free run at killing anything he likes, all protections taken off etc.

Its always interesting to here other peoples views, from his corporate world he said people arent getting jobs on merit anymore. Firms have quotas to fill, so many women and so many different colours/religions regardless of ability/ best candidate have to be employed to look equal etc.

that last sentance is very fitting for our county council!

 

[T Hectares]

Perception and perspective are very different things. Generally individuals and old farmers see food security as an existential threat eg if we had a major war (see WW2) and we struggle to have enough food in the UK. Retailers and governments see food security along the lines of “are the supply routes secure, are the shelves full, are people happy”.

it is quite difficult to comprehend a time when UK food security could be challenged.

1. If there is a war then it’s nuclear and we’ll have bigger fish to fry
2. A major natural hazard, think Yellowstone eruption. Food production will be challenged for everyone for 5 - 10yrs
3. Negative impacts of climate change (most likely issue). Food efficiency will be the most important thing to resolve - say goodnight to intensively produced meat using cereals or on land that can grow cereal, pulses, oilseeds etc.

So what’s the point of this post? Bluntly, we need to stop banging on about food security or food miles. It’s a rubbish argument. We need to be embracing SFS, SFI and other schemes, accept we take taxpayer money and they call the tune and most Importantly get retailers, governments and consumers to measure efficiency of ag systems by environmental credentials eg carbon use, biodiversity gain rather than pure financial costs. We need to produce to standards that achieve these things which, by any measure, they don’t currently. Every farm should be completing a carbon and biodiversity account with profitability in those areas being prioritised. Taxpayer money can then go to those areas to make up the financial

I think you contradict yourself by thinking “governments, retailers and consumers will measure efficiency of AG systems by environmental credentials” as that would mean we trade at a huge advantage to lower quality imports which would effectively cut off the supply of imports that would bolster the lower home supplies ??

And what if the nations we import from adopted the same stringent environmental measures and cut production, where would we buy from then??

I think we can do both to ensure domestic food supply and improve the environment, we can strike the balance domestically but the Welsh measures are too far to the left and the English measures need to value the UK uplands and livestock sectors

 

[carbonfibre farmer]

first thing we should be thinking when we make a business decision is will this make climate/environment worse

I'm generally thinking will this business decision make me bankrupt and destitute if I get it wrong? Maybe it's just me

 

[T Hectares]

I'm generally thinking will this business decision make me bankrupt and destitute if I get it wrong? Maybe it's just me

No, not just you

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

the first thing we should be thinking when we make a business decision is will this make climate/environment worse

Can you think of any supermarket, processor or multi national grain trader who think like that?

No nor can I

 

[Lowland1]

I'm generally thinking will this business decision make me bankrupt and destitute if I get it wrong? Maybe it's just me

I remember the good old days of ripping out hedges.

 

[steveR]

Other countries will be competing with UK buyers to secure supply. That'll drive up food costs. Never mind our navy shepherding the safe delivery of it.

What navy??

 

[ollie989898]

Population has increased and food supply has had to increase to provide for it. The destruction of pristine environment and the drive to produce hugely energy inefficient meat have contributed to climate disaster we are seeing rapidly unfold. When over 90% of animal biomass is farmed livestock then it’s easy to see one of the main causes.
Electric and hydrogen cars are evolving, huge money is being invested in cleaner flight fuels. Farming is being left behind because we don’t understand, don’t want to believe when we finally understand and are slow to respond when we do the first thing we should be thinking when we make a business decision is will this make climate/environment worse

Are you taking the pish?

 

[Hilly]

Is food security on a country level any different to family home level , you make sure you have plenty to feed the family….. you make sure you have enough to feed the nation …. Fail and their will be a row !

 

[ollie989898]

If the OP thinks food security is a silly argument he should have spent time out in Africa in '08, as my older brother did, when the food riots were kicking off. It might make him reconsider the importance of food security.

Look at the effect food prices had in the Middle East. Toppled governments basically.

 

[som farmer]

food security is nothing to do with us farmers, nothing whatsoever.

food security is down to guv, and their policies, however stupid.

they may well talk about it, and even sub us, in the form of grants etc, to be more efficient, their view is more efficient, means more cheap food.

its about time we realised that, and stop producing cheap food, its all down to simple economics, supply v demand, not enough = price up, and the opposite.

now, if they really want food security, they can damn well pay us a decent price to produce it, otherwise, feck them.

 

[melted welly]

Totally secure. Just clutching at straws there

Like at the start of Covid? No empty shelves then was there?

 

[Swarfmonkey]

Look at the effect food prices had in the Middle East. Toppled governments basically.

Exactly. It's bloody complicated really, just look at what happened due to India's export ban on certain types of rice. 22% increase in global prices in less than a year.

 

[betweenthelines]

The West is rich enough to trade its way out of any local (eg European) food shortages caused by climate change.

A far more likely "shortage" of food would, I think be due to the centralisation of food processing/abattoirs or a failure of the delivery supply chain.

Just imagine a total breakdown (eg a fire) in one of the UK's "super dairies" or major slaughterhouses. Or something like an overbridge collapse on the M5 or M6

Panic buying would do the rest.

 

[DrWazzock]

Selfishly (and wrongly) I will for my own financial interests agree with the OP and so do many of my farming neighbours.
I’m no longer prepared to lose money producing food to a higher standard than imports, receive the same price as those lower standard imports and watch them flood into the country unencumbered by the sort of GFC inspired crap that we are about to be subjected to.
So next year my cereals output will at least 50% less than average as much more land will be placed in enviro schemes that don’t require any involvement from RT and all the other parasites that travel with it.
So good luck sourcing high quality safe British produce because there’s going to be an awful lot less of it around. We will then see how silly an argument food security is. I predict it will end up like gas supplies. There’ll be a shortage then a price spike then a drive for higher home production. Let’s hope there isn’t a riot somewhere in between.
This country is in the grip of a special kind of madness in my view but as a farmer I can only play the hand I’m dealt. If that means a drastic cut in production and growing useless crap to please the guardian reading suburbanites then that’s what I’ll do. They can pick up the pieces and explain the consequences of their idiotic policies to the baying mob.

 

[egbert]

Perception and perspective are very different things. Generally individuals and old farmers see food security as an existential threat eg if we had a major war (see WW2) and we struggle to have enough food in the UK. Retailers and governments see food security along the lines of “are the supply routes secure, are the shelves full, are people happy”.

it is quite difficult to comprehend a time when UK food security could be challenged.

1. If there is a war then it’s nuclear and we’ll have bigger fish to fry
2. A major natural hazard, think Yellowstone eruption. Food production will be challenged for everyone for 5 - 10yrs
3. Negative impacts of climate change (most likely issue). Food efficiency will be the most important thing to resolve - say goodnight to intensively produced meat using cereals or on land that can grow cereal, pulses, oilseeds etc.

So what’s the point of this post? Bluntly, we need to stop banging on about food security or food miles. It’s a rubbish argument. We need to be embracing SFS, SFI and other schemes, accept we take taxpayer money and they call the tune and most Importantly get retailers, governments and consumers to measure efficiency of ag systems by environmental credentials eg carbon use, biodiversity gain rather than pure financial costs. We need to produce to standards that achieve these things which, by any measure, they don’t currently. Every farm should be completing a carbon and biodiversity account with profitability in those areas being prioritised. Taxpayer money can then go to those areas to make up the financial shortfalls.

I'm not going to read all the thread, and I daresay it's all been said before.......however....

We live in a very densely populated country of 68 million entitled souls, who expect every convenience at the click of a button.
If any one of the dozen or more scenarios undoubtedly outlined already, occurs now, these 68 million won't all stoically await salvation.
I would guess the quickest trigger is going to be a heatwave/drought in a critical 'breadbasket', although goodness knows what Putin could do if he really finds himself cornered. Your presumption that a nuclear war would be global mightn't be what happens at all.

It's only coincidence that the Houthi's weren't firing missiles at boat loads of staples. A shortage of teabags could've been the least of our issues.

China has seemingly eased off the buying spree now, having built up enough reserve to see them through a year or 18 months of sanctions, or 'crisis'.
But a moderate shortfall in supply would trigger them, or others to chase the market, and the 'Arab Spring' reveals what happens when that occurs.

Having seen how we react when the supply of bog roll runs short, I think it's reasonable to presume that when the 'pizza and chips' conveyor stutters, we're very few days from flying cobblestones, and not many weeks before we're eating each other.

Personally i couldn't give a flying doo dah.
As I've indicated elsewhere, I see the 68 million as 'surplus calories at need', and already have that in mind.
But not everyone has my optimistic outlook.

Good luck though.

 

[delilah]

Time to fire up @delilah

Sorry i'm taking a sabbatical from the main forum to assist the BFU task force in getting the GFC pulled. Laters