Fertilizing winter cereal

fudge · Mar 5, 2024

Clive said:
it also benefits / encourages mixed farming and encourages more legumes to be grown and technology use to improve efficiency - big win all round surely ?

very easy to quantify the Carbon saving as well as the benefits to water quality

only losers ? the fert manufactures

Milling wheat doesn't NEED to be high protein - its just become dictated that it is by buyers

From a taxpayer’s point of view all of these benefits could be obtained by imposing the limit and reducing the payment rates on other SFI options. As you and point out it would take UK food production in a more sustainable direction at lower cost to the exchequer.

e3120 · Mar 5, 2024

Clive said:
a 150kgs or even a 100kgs limit would be a good addition to SFi options - if the payment covered income forgone I would a happily take it - I don't farm to keep fert companies in business

Fine idea but...

Can't be allowed, as it'll be double funding after we're handsomely rewarded via the GFC

Zippy768 · Mar 5, 2024

Two Tone said:
Now there’s a thought:

Recreational fertilisation, anyone?

Recreational digging tractor out?

Clive · Mar 5, 2024

fudge said:
From a taxpayer’s point of view all of these benefits could be obtained by imposing the limit and reducing the payment rates on other SFI options. As you and point out it would take UK food production in a more sustainable direction at lower cost to the exchequer.

if you don't offer at least income forgone on ANY sfi option uptake will be near zero .............. land isn't actually nationalised you know and i'm certainly not working for nothing !

Bossfarmer · Mar 5, 2024

Two Tone said:
It might not be less everywhere, but this is certainly what I have noticed here.

Because we aren’t getting the crop off to an as easier start as conventionally planted crops, they struggle more to get going in the Autumn. We haven’t given them a cosy seedbed or released a sudden rush of nutrients in the soil, immediately available to the germinating crop.

Therefore they struggle more. In fact, the fields often look like a stubble field with some green weeds growing in the bottom, until the end of the following March, when they grow taller than the previous crop’s stubble.

However, it is as if we have kicked them in the teeth and they come back fighting. The result is that they have missed the opportunity to grow the usual amount of vegetative material, the straw, but want to reproduce as much as possible, therefore the grain yield remains good.

I have had two fields of Hybrid Winter Barley side by side, each planted differently. The best looking, conventional bit had a hell of a lot of straw. But the DD’d bit out-yielded it grain wise, but with about half the amount of straw.

Conventional
View attachment 1168107

DD’d. See how not only the yield is more, but Straw walker losses are less. The straw was 9” to a foot shorter.
View attachment 1168108

I’ll stress that this is my experience and might not be the same as others.

in fairness some years that ive had massive straw yields the grain isnt always such a massive yield strangely

David. · Mar 5, 2024

It can be done, here anyway.

Woody j · Mar 5, 2024

David. said:
View attachment 1168193
It can be done, here anyway.

What tyres? Are you leaving any tracks? Hopefully get a bit done tomorrow

David. · Mar 5, 2024

Just 18.4s, only bit of damage is a couple of wet headlands.
Got a field I daren't go near until its drained a bit more though.
It has dried really well here today.

Lewis · Mar 5, 2024

spread a 120kgs/ha of UREA on the grazing fields last week when it was fit to travel, rained that evening and been wet and miserable again since. Finally fit again to travel on the rest of the ground that's not been done yet, mainly all silage ground but forecast is saying should be dry for a week or so..... sure i've read somewhere that urea wants a shower of rain soon after spreading? should i just crack on and get it on or wait till there's rain imminant again?
New to urea so not overly clued up on it really,

ollie989898 · Mar 5, 2024

Clive said:
a 150kgs or even a 100kgs limit would be a good addition to SFi options - if the payment covered income forgone I would a happily take it - I don't farm to keep fert companies in business

A limit on the headlands of fields would make sense, be worth a payment per hectare. Same with voluntary 12 margins along watercourses/streams, drill the crop if you want but no spray and no fertiliser? Top off once per year to keep GAEC?

Zippy768 · Mar 5, 2024

Lewis said:
spread a 120kgs/ha of UREA on the grazing fields last week when it was fit to travel, rained that evening and been wet and miserable again since. Finally fit again to travel on the rest of the ground that's not been done yet, mainly all silage ground but forecast is saying should be dry for a week or so..... sure i've read somewhere that urea wants a shower of rain soon after spreading? should i just crack on and get it on or wait till there's rain imminant again?
New to urea so not overly clued up on it really,

Chuck it on if you can. Rain or not, it'll of dissolved by the morning this time of year

Two Tone · Mar 5, 2024

Bossfarmer said:
in fairness some years that ive had massive straw yields the grain isnt always such a massive yield strangely

That’s as may be.
But I’d say that situation is far less likely with DD’ing unless you gave been doing it for a very long time on easy working, well drained land and you should be able to see why, logically that this would be the case.

Knowing your situation with a mixed farm and a lot of cattle and muck on a mixed farm, I wouldn’t rush into DD when your system seems to work for you.

ollie989898 · Mar 5, 2024

Lewis said:
spread a 120kgs/ha of UREA on the grazing fields last week when it was fit to travel, rained that evening and been wet and miserable again since. Finally fit again to travel on the rest of the ground that's not been done yet, mainly all silage ground but forecast is saying should be dry for a week or so..... sure i've read somewhere that urea wants a shower of rain soon after spreading? should i just crack on and get it on or wait till there's rain imminant again?
New to urea so not overly clued up on it really,

Urea wants to go on early- it takes time for the bacteria in the soil to convert it into a format ready for plants to use. In very cold dry springs this can work against you but it is thought to be kinder to soil life and has benefits from being a bit more concentrated and safer to store and handle.

Lewis · Mar 5, 2024

will be a good 3-4 weeks earlier than going on with any nitrogen/compound fertiliser. just been to wet until now....

Chris W · Mar 5, 2024

ollie989898 said:
A limit on the headlands of fields would make sense, be worth a payment per hectare. Same with voluntary 12 margins along watercourses/streams, drill the crop if you want but no spray and no fertiliser? Top off once per year to keep GAEC?

That would contradict their new VRA payment that would typically increase application rates on headlands …

Farmer Roy · Mar 6, 2024

Just for the record - we get NO government money . . .

the amount of N we apply is based on seasonal conditions, farming practices, soil types & moisture availability, environmental considerations, rotations, soil tests, financial circumstances, market outlooks, the actual price of N & each individuals attitude to risk. In other words - good management, based on the individual farm, farmer & season . . .

FUCH government money, control & intervention . . .

you lot re SO pussy whipped into submission by those 30 pieces of silver . . .

fudge · Mar 6, 2024

Farmer Roy said:
Just for the record - we get NO government money . . .

the amount of N we apply is based on seasonal conditions, farming practices, soil types & moisture availability, environmental considerations, rotations, soil tests, financial circumstances, market outlooks, the actual price of N & each individuals attitude to risk. In other words - good management, based on the individual farm, farmer & season . . .

FUCH government money, control & intervention . . .

you lot re SO pussy whipped into submission by those 30 pieces of silver . . .

Australian circumstances are very different but the whole Brexit process has convinced me that government shouldn’t be handing government money to farmers. What has happened is that the snouts move from one trough to another.

teslacoils · Mar 6, 2024

Lewis said:
spread a 120kgs/ha of UREA on the grazing fields last week when it was fit to travel, rained that evening and been wet and miserable again since. Finally fit again to travel on the rest of the ground that's not been done yet, mainly all silage ground but forecast is saying should be dry for a week or so..... sure i've read somewhere that urea wants a shower of rain soon after spreading? should i just crack on and get it on or wait till there's rain imminant again?
New to urea so not overly clued up on it really,

Get it in if you can travel.

Gedd · Mar 6, 2024

Got my miniscual 115 acres done 11 days ago with some urea left over from last year think its working now plus wouldnt be able to travel as well now weather just cant help itself if its a dry day it rains at night cant get a few dry days together lambing now and fields are wet for turnong lambs onto

yellow belly · Mar 6, 2024

Two Tone said:
I’d agree with you, but only to a certain extent.
There is no doubt that not disturbing soils by any form of cultivation allows us to travel more easily on them.

However, it also very much depends on soil type and how free draining that soil is.
As you have said previously, your soils are more sandy, free draining and drought prone.

Heavy lands are still firm, but as the tramlines remain in the same place, tend to smear and end up as a rainwater trap. Travelling on them, results in the tramline becoming deeper and you end up in a catch 22 situation.
It needs to stop raining long enough for the tramlines to dry out, or we need a hard enough frost to support the weight of the tractor and spreader, without making the tramlines so deep, that we will need to cultivate them to level them out, before the next crop.

But even on the lighter, sandier bits here, it will need several days of dry weather, before I can even think about going.

Then we have the unprotected Urea situation:
Normally I’d happily get all my Urea on by the end of March. I always used to want it all on by 7th April to make sure it had time to all get used up. A week sooner, would hardly make any difference and the extra cost of protected Urea is unjustifiably.
However, that would normally mean that I had got the first 3rd of it on in February and the crop would be ready for its main dose by the end of March.

That hasn’t happened this year and at least half of my crops will not be far enough forward by the end of March to get the second dose on.

So, what do we do?
Lie?

facts adviser can recommend that urea losses are negligable in cool conditions on land with low free caco3 and rainfall forecast to wash it in

Fertilizing winter cereal

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