Calf rearing costs..

Cmoran said:

We are trying a new to us way of calf rearing this year so far we have 230 calves reared on 70 bags of milk powder we are following a system that you can see on you tube: calf rearing in Ireland Michael Bateman. Our calves look good and so far I’ve only had to inject one calf that was a bit off form

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You will pay hellish for giving them so little milk in poor growth rates down the line.

There is no way in hell you can rear a calve properly on less than one back of milk powder each unless you are buying them nearly weaned!

som farmer said:

that looks interesting, will try and find the article.

what calves are you rearing, and what age do you get them in at.

l watch farmer phill on u'tube, putting 120 calves, in one pen, with auto feeder, makes me cringe, but he seemingly gets away with it, or he's lenient with the truth. But he likes his calves to be about a month old.

guess what l am going to do, for the next 46 minutes !!

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It makes me cringe too. Way too many in a batch. The fit get fitter and the smaller ones get pushed out and go backwards. Ending up as stunted, pot bellied, woolly things.
I wouldn't have a machine feeder given me.

Flossie said:

It makes me cringe too. Way too many in a batch. The fit get fitter and the smaller ones get pushed out and go backwards. Ending up as stunted, pot bellied, woolly things.
I wouldn't have a machine feeder given me.

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How many in one lot is best ? And how do you feed yours ?

Flossie said:

It makes me cringe too. Way too many in a batch. The fit get fitter and the smaller ones get pushed out and go backwards. Ending up as stunted, pot bellied, woolly things.
I wouldn't have a machine feeder given me.

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But some machine feeders can be programmed to give the preset milk amount to each calf rather then letting the bigger calfs push the others out.

som farmer said:

2 bags of powder, is a big expense, it will really hit margin.

l think the same result could be achieved, by ad-lib conc, at a much lesser cost.

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Two bags of powder is about £120 but they have to have 1 bag anyway so it’s an extra £60 quid which for the bloom it gives them isn’t the end of the world I think he’d easily get that back when he sells them . When you squeeze a cows tit milk comes out not nuts

Hilly said:

How much is the powder per
Ton ?

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l might be a bit out on price, looking at some of the following posts

basically, we don't buy much, but £1800 was the last price quoted

sold most of the dairy, some high cc cows will supply enough milk for us.

Ours have about 30-35 kg powder each. They are 2-4 weeks when we get them. Trying a better powder this spring 24-20 alongside a normal for us 22-19. We can see the difference in the powders at the moment will be interesting to see when everything is weaned.

ringi said:

But some machine feeders can be programmed to give the preset milk amount to each calf rather then letting the bigger calfs push the others out.

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Yes our machine restricts the allowance. To 6litres each per day. But that is infitimately adjustable. We have a plan B which are allowed 7.5 litres for poorer calves or shy ones which will only come in twice a day

Jasper said:

Two bags of powder is about £120 but they have to have 1 bag anyway so it’s an extra £60 quid which for the bloom it gives them isn’t the end of the world I think he’d easily get that back when he sells them . When you squeeze a cows tit milk comes out not nuts

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l am not talking as in tight fisted.

what l am saying, is more about rumen development, and the calves ability to process roughage, and it is roughage that feeds the rumen bugs, and starts that off.

calves that stay on a cow, have months to develop it, slowly, a bucket calf you wouldn't keep on powder for 5/6 months.

all you are really achieving, is your bloom, at the cost of delaying rumen development, which is the natural progression to a forage based diet, you would be far better getting the calf onto ad-lib conc, with roughage, so it can utilise either grass of forage better.

see how quickly hol bull calves, for bull beef grow, they don't get 2 bags.

a lot also depends on age of calf, when you get it, basically anywhere between 10 days, and 50 days. We have bought calves fit to wean. Saw 42+days old, arla calves, in mkt last spring for £20 or less, beef crosses, but not quality calves.

ultimately, its all down to personal choice, how you rear calves.

we are still old fashioned, and use single pens. And been told off, by a vet for doing so, they are meant to be reared in a minimum of two. So, asked, can calves see and touch calves, in the adjacent pens, can you find anything wrong with them ? yes and no, they look really good, but you are not meant to rear them singly

Samcowman said:

Ours have about 30-35 kg powder each. They are 2-4 weeks when we get them. Trying a better powder this spring 24-20 alongside a normal for us 22-19. We can see the difference in the powders at the moment will be interesting to see when everything is weaned.

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powder wise, you get what you pay for. And there is a difference.

som farmer said:

l am not talking as in tight fisted.

what l am saying, is more about rumen development, and the calves ability to process roughage, and it is roughage that feeds the rumen bugs, and starts that off.

calves that stay on a cow, have months to develop it, slowly, a bucket calf you wouldn't keep on powder for 5/6 months.

all you are really achieving, is your bloom, at the cost of delaying rumen development, which is the natural progression to a forage based diet, you would be far better getting the calf onto ad-lib conc, with roughage, so it can utilise either grass of forage better.

see how quickly hol bull calves, for bull beef grow, they don't get 2 bags.

a lot also depends on age of calf, when you get it, basically anywhere between 10 days, and 50 days. We have bought calves fit to wean. Saw 42+days old, arla calves, in mkt last spring for £20 or less, beef crosses, but not quality calves.

ultimately, its all down to personal choice, how you rear calves.

we are still old fashioned, and use single pens. And been told off, by a vet for doing so, they are meant to be reared in a minimum of two. So, asked, can calves see and touch calves, in the adjacent pens, can you find anything wrong with them ? yes and no, they look really good, but you are not meant to rear them singly

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I know I was only joking I always enjoy reading you’re posts . But for his job (he will sell them anytime after weaning ) an extra bag of powder easily pays for it self . He will buy any breed of calf and because he does them well they sell well

Hilly said:

How many in one lot is best ? And how do you feed yours ?

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How long's a piece of string? Going off the example of Farmer Phil, 120 was way too many in one group. He doesn't come across as fully knowing what he's doing with calves, and it's a skill is rearing them.
I've been doing it over 25 years and I'm still learning!
I sell everything by 10 weeks old, so they're still in individual hutches when they go, but in the past when we were rearing replacements, 15 was a nice pen size. Towards 20 and the wheels started to fall off, but it all depends on your sheds. And your eyes. I do a lot of farming just watching stock, and find smaller pens are easier to spot anything that's 'off'. Same person feeding helps too. You get to know their habits, and if something is out of character.
Mine are individually housed in hutches but under a shed. One shed is a lean to with the hutches facing inwards and is cracking for calves. The other is a knackered shed that needs bombing, but we do the best with what we've got, and that has hutches too, facing away from the prevailing wind.
They get 3 days of colostrum via a speedy feeder, then onto a peach teat feeder for a week or two from the milk taxi (waste milk made up with milk powder (£2000/tonne)) Then onto a bucket, with fresh calf ration available from 4 or 5 days old. Start 'woofing them up' with milk about 3 weeks old (any younger I find makes them sh*t) and keep them going till I'm happy they're ready to sell.
I've no accurate measurements I go off my eye, but when costs were at their dearest (and worse case scenario of having to jab something etc,) I reckoned on £180 to 8 weeks old.
My 14 on Thursday at an average of 8 weeks old sold to average £336.

ringi said:

But some machine feeders can be programmed to give the preset milk amount to each calf rather then letting the bigger calfs push the others out.

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We had a machine for a short while many moons ago, that was programmed for the individual calf. We were finding the bolshy calves would jump on the more timid ones whilst they were in the feeding bay. The machine gave the feed, but the bigger calves stole it whilst the quiet one was underneath it on the floor.
The computer told you the calf had drunk, but it looked like crap because some other sod had nicked it 🫣

Hilly said:

How much is the powder per
Ton ?

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Currently paying 2500, was 3000 12 months ago. Currently using about 1.75 bags a calf. 150 grams a litre, 8 litres a day.

som farmer said:

that looks interesting, will try and find the article.

what calves are you rearing, and what age do you get them in at.

l watch farmer phill on u'tube, putting 120 calves, in one pen, with auto feeder, makes me cringe, but he seemingly gets away with it, or he's lenient with the truth. But he likes his calves to be about a month old.

guess what l am going to do, for the next 46 minutes !!

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I’m rearing friesian and Angus mostly and won’t take a calf less than 21 days but they are mostly over 30 days when they arrive I only purchase direct from farms. When the calves arrive we inject them with 28 day antibiotics and 2ml of endocam then after they settle in we vaccinate for pneumonia and inject with multimin and dose for coccidiosis. We usually have 15-18 in a pen. We clean water bowls daily and give fresh silage daily nuts are fed in small hoppers so just keep them topped up

Cmoran said:

I’m rearing friesian and Angus mostly and won’t take a calf less than 21 days but they are mostly over 30 days when they arrive I only purchase direct from farms. When the calves arrive we inject them with 28 day antibiotics and 2ml of endocam then after they settle in we vaccinate for pneumonia and inject with multimin and dose for coccidiosis. We usually have 15-18 in a pen. We clean water bowls daily and give fresh silage daily nuts are fed in small hoppers so just keep them topped up

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you are starting with 3 week old calves, so weaning at 42 days, you are only feeding for half of 'normal' period, makes a big difference.

routine AB's, is it a 'good' or 'bad' thing, certainly from the perspective of reducing use, its definitely very bad. When l was rearing 6/700 a year, each batch was treated with aurofac, a/b powder added to the milk for 7 days, and l swore by it, and a mineral drench, cocci was only if needed.

today, going back to rearing large numbers again, not sure l would want to blanket treat whole batches. The trouble with a/b is it kills all bacteria, including those in the rumen, thereby delaying the calves' ability to utilise roughage, either hay silage or straw. Disease limitation, is why we hope to secure numbers direct from one source.

calves did well while on milk, but we would get trouble post weaning, looking back, some of that would have been the fact that calves were not transitioned onto forage/cake properly, and that 'check' was enough to let germs go mad !!

so, we make sure calves are well onto conc and roughage, before weaning. That is the main reason we only feed 2 litres/feed, calves are left looking for 'more', and conc and water are there from day one.

and, the problem with a/b's are simple, resistance is growing faster than new ones are being developed. That is why a/b use in animals is so restricted, to slow resistance, in the human population.

The implications of widespread resistance, are truly scary, had a research doctor explain it. Basically, if you get an infection, that you cannot control/kill with any a/b, you die, if the infection is in a limb, and caught early enough, before the infection gets around the body, amputation of that limb, is your only hope.

apparently, blackthorn was a good example of infection, causing a lot of amputations. Today, sepsis is becoming an increasing problem, curable at present, but only with a limited few drugs.

Hospitals used to have dedicated sepsis wards, the likelihood of coming out of one, was virtually nil. A/b's arrived during ww2, and by today, a lot are useless, because of resistance.

Cmoran said:

I’m rearing friesian and Angus mostly and won’t take a calf less than 21 days but they are mostly over 30 days when they arrive I only purchase direct from farms. When the calves arrive we inject them with 28 day antibiotics and 2ml of endocam then after they settle in we vaccinate for pneumonia and inject with multimin and dose for coccidiosis. We usually have 15-18 in a pen. We clean water bowls daily and give fresh silage daily nuts are fed in small hoppers so just keep them topped up

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Get them vaccinated before they arrive with you. Definitely don’t need to jab them all with antibiotics on arrival!

A +1 for the vaccines. I've just had my SFI health review with the vets and I brought up vaccines vs A/B vs wait and treat as a point of discussion.

Don't be afraid of vaccines and any sort of restricted use - they aren't viewed in the same way as A/Bs are. So vaccination is fine!

HarryB97 said:

Get them vaccinated before they arrive with you. Definitely don’t need to jab them all with antibiotics on arrival!

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first farm, all vaccinated, that's somewhere between £5-10, 97 calves, £750ish saved, plus they use an anti crypto dose, they had it years ago !

but blanket a/b, on arrival, shouldn't need to unless a problem, its actually detrimental to calf health.

years ago, when rearing a lot, if we had vaccinated, for all the vets wanted, the cost exceeded the value of the calf !

Since we started having Wagyu in which come pre vaccinated for pneumonia then we top it up our mortality and AB use has been slashed. The last 60 calves we reared I have not injected one since they arrived two months ago!

HarryB97 said:

Since we started having Wagyu in which come pre vaccinated for pneumonia then we top it up our mortality and AB use has been slashed. The last 60 calves we reared I have not injected one since they arrived two months ago!

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Which vaccines are used? Had a bad winter with autumn born calves. Need to try some. Thanks