Calf rearing costs..

[Woolless]

I’m rearing friesian and Angus mostly and won’t take a calf less than 21 days but they are mostly over 30 days when they arrive I only purchase direct from farms. When the calves arrive we inject them with 28 day antibiotics and 2ml of endocam then after they settle in we vaccinate for pneumonia and inject with multimin and dose for coccidiosis. We usually have 15-18 in a pen. We clean water bowls daily and give fresh silage daily nuts are fed in small hoppers so just keep them topped up

You need to speak to your vet. You shouldn't need to treat with blanket antibiotics, particularly when their use is being restricted to prevent resistance developing.

 

[gone up the hill]

you are starting with 3 week old calves, so weaning at 42 days, you are only feeding for half of 'normal' period, makes a big difference.

routine AB's, is it a 'good' or 'bad' thing, certainly from the perspective of reducing use, its definitely very bad. When l was rearing 6/700 a year, each batch was treated with aurofac, a/b powder added to the milk for 7 days, and l swore by it, and a mineral drench, cocci was only if needed.

today, going back to rearing large numbers again, not sure l would want to blanket treat whole batches. The trouble with a/b is it kills all bacteria, including those in the rumen, thereby delaying the calves' ability to utilise roughage, either hay silage or straw. Disease limitation, is why we hope to secure numbers direct from one source.

calves did well while on milk, but we would get trouble post weaning, looking back, some of that would have been the fact that calves were not transitioned onto forage/cake properly, and that 'check' was enough to let germs go mad !!

so, we make sure calves are well onto conc and roughage, before weaning. That is the main reason we only feed 2 litres/feed, calves are left looking for 'more', and conc and water are there from day one.

and, the problem with a/b's are simple, resistance is growing faster than new ones are being developed. That is why a/b use in animals is so restricted, to slow resistance, in the human population.

The implications of widespread resistance, are truly scary, had a research doctor explain it. Basically, if you get an infection, that you cannot control/kill with any a/b, you die, if the infection is in a limb, and caught early enough, before the infection gets around the body, amputation of that limb, is your only hope.

apparently, blackthorn was a good example of infection, causing a lot of amputations. Today, sepsis is becoming an increasing problem, curable at present, but only with a limited few drugs.

Hospitals used to have dedicated sepsis wards, the likelihood of coming out of one, was virtually nil. A/b's arrived during ww2, and by today, a lot are useless, because of resistance.

6 weeks old is too young to be weaning calves off milk!

I would be very wary of following anyone putting videos etc on SM saying that is what they are doing as they will not include a video of all the runty calves/ small 12 month old cattle etc that they will clearly get on such a system!

 

[som farmer]

6 weeks old is too young to be weaning calves off milk!

I would be very wary of following anyone putting videos etc on SM saying that is what they are doing as they will not include a video of all the runty calves/ small 12 month old cattle etc that they will clearly get on such a system!

6 weeks was the recommended age to wean them, that used to come from the likes of ADAS, powder people the trade, BOCM etc.

did some work with denkavit back in the early 20's, some of that was weaning earlier, and increasing the amount of powder used, with less water.

l think it was BOCM that recommended you didn't wash out your milk buckets, from start to finish, wouldn't dream of doing that now. The idea was that the residue grew the correct bugs etc, actually tried that, with a batch not doing, and to be fair, it worked.

l am one for clean buckets, so only tried the one batch, but it really isn't much different to adding natural yogurt to the mix, just to messy.

we do things differently now, like us, a lot of people wean 8 ish weeks. Stuck with only feeding 2 litres/feed, or less if a small calf. Certain reducing liquid volume in milk, gets them eating conc quicker, and more of it.

the 6 week weaning, came with the proviso, had to be eating 2 kg of conc, so really, if they are eating 2kg, they should be ok to wean. And to be fair, OM always weaned at 42 days, and the calves always did ok. But then hfrs calved at 3yrs, not 2.

We probably wean more by size, than age, some might be 10wks +. Perhaps that's more to do with not buying much powder !

what works for us, might not work for others, we usually top the mkt with our stirks, so must be doing something right.

vaccination, we did our dry cows with rota vac, and an excellent response from that, this last winter was the 2nd we vaccinated the calves, at 7/10 days old, with bovolto, respiratory one, vet tech calls in x1 a week, and did them. This year, we didn't do the first 15 or so, not deliberately, just 'drifted', but it did give us the opportunity to compare. And an unhealthy winter, we didn't lose any, but had more trouble with that pen, than the rest, calves were a bit smaller, perhaps.

vaccination is firmly on the to do list. Farm we are taking from, is doing it

 

[gone up the hill]

6 weeks was the recommended age to wean them, that used to come from the likes of ADAS, powder people the trade, BOCM etc.

did some work with denkavit back in the early 20's, some of that was weaning earlier, and increasing the amount of powder used, with less water.

l think it was BOCM that recommended you didn't wash out your milk buckets, from start to finish, wouldn't dream of doing that now. The idea was that the residue grew the correct bugs etc, actually tried that, with a batch not doing, and to be fair, it worked.

l am one for clean buckets, so only tried the one batch, but it really isn't much different to adding natural yogurt to the mix, just to messy.

we do things differently now, like us, a lot of people wean 8 ish weeks. Stuck with only feeding 2 litres/feed, or less if a small calf. Certain reducing liquid volume in milk, gets them eating conc quicker, and more of it.

the 6 week weaning, came with the proviso, had to be eating 2 kg of conc, so really, if they are eating 2kg, they should be ok to wean. And to be fair, OM always weaned at 42 days, and the calves always did ok. But then hfrs calved at 3yrs, not 2.

We probably wean more by size, than age, some might be 10wks +. Perhaps that's more to do with not buying much powder !

what works for us, might not work for others, we usually top the mkt with our stirks, so must be doing something right.

vaccination, we did our dry cows with rota vac, and an excellent response from that, this last winter was the 2nd we vaccinated the calves, at 7/10 days old, with bovolto, respiratory one, vet tech calls in x1 a week, and did them. This year, we didn't do the first 15 or so, not deliberately, just 'drifted', but it did give us the opportunity to compare. And an unhealthy winter, we didn't lose any, but had more trouble with that pen, than the rest, calves were a bit smaller, perhaps.

vaccination is firmly on the to do list. Farm we are taking from, is doing it

Most calves will not be eating 2 kilos of cake by 6 weeks old unless you starve them of milk and if you do that you are damaging the development of their rumen.

Not washing the feeders etc untill they are weaned is a nonsense, would be utter rank in the summer months, would you have your coffee in a mug with mould growing on it?

Take a pinch of salt at what these experts tell farmers to do, good calf rearing comes down to a few things, good quality milk powder, feed the milk at the same time every day, clean feeding stuff, ideally the same person doing the milk each day, clean water/ access to straw. clean dry bedding, good air flow thru the shed, etc etc, basically very simple stuff and attention to detail but scrimping on milk powder/ weaning at 6 weeks etc at the calve rearing stage will just cost you 3/5 times the £ you save further on down the line in the lifetime of the calve!

 

[Cmoran]

6 weeks old is too young to be weaning calves off milk!

I would be very wary of following anyone putting videos etc on SM saying that is what they are doing as they will not include a video of all the runty calves/ small 12 month old cattle etc that they will clearly get on such a system!

I actually buy calves from a guy in his discussion group and he said he can’t get over the quality of the calves on that system and is going to change his replacement heifers to this system next year. Also the calves are eating 2kg+ of 18% calf nuts per day at weaning from milk

 

[Cmoran]

Most calves will not be eating 2 kilos of cake by 6 weeks old unless you starve them of milk and if you do that you are damaging the development of their rumen.

Not washing the feeders etc untill they are weaned is a nonsense, would be utter rank in the summer months, would you have your coffee in a mug with mould growing on it?

Take a pinch of salt at what these experts tell farmers to do, good calf rearing comes down to a few things, good quality milk powder, feed the milk at the same time every day, clean feeding stuff, ideally the same person doing the milk each day, clean water/ access to straw. clean dry bedding, good air flow thru the shed, etc etc, basically very simple stuff and attention to detail but scrimping on milk powder/ weaning at 6 weeks etc at the calve rearing stage will just cost you 3/5 times the £ you save further on down the line in the lifetime of the calve!

I suppose it’s a matter of opinion about weaning at 6 weeks but so far it has been a dream for us its my first time trying it and the reason for change is our old system wasn’t working we used to wean from 8-9 weeks depending on size but seemed to spend every morning injecting off form calves so something had to change. So far this year I’ve had 1 off form calf and they are very content lying down in the field usually close to the ad-lib feeder I’m also still giving them silage as grass is scarce here yet.

 

[Cmoran]

You need to speak to your vet. You shouldn't need to treat with blanket antibiotics, particularly when their use is being restricted to prevent resistance developing.

My vet that done up my calf health plan for me and he recommended we use zupravo on arrival to give vaccination a chance to work we have been doing that for 3 years now after a breakout of pneumonia caused havoc few years back. When we did plan this year we added early coccidiosis dose as there were issues last year with 3 month old calves and we never had coccidiosis on the farm before

 

[som farmer]

Most calves will not be eating 2 kilos of cake by 6 weeks old unless you starve them of milk and if you do that you are damaging the development of their rumen.

Not washing the feeders etc untill they are weaned is a nonsense, would be utter rank in the summer months, would you have your coffee in a mug with mould growing on it?

Take a pinch of salt at what these experts tell farmers to do, good calf rearing comes down to a few things, good quality milk powder, feed the milk at the same time every day, clean feeding stuff, ideally the same person doing the milk each day, clean water/ access to straw. clean dry bedding, good air flow thru the shed, etc etc, basically very simple stuff and attention to detail but scrimping on milk powder/ weaning at 6 weeks etc at the calve rearing stage will just cost you 3/5 times the £ you save further on down the line in the lifetime of the calve!

well calves did get to 2kg a day, by 6 weeks, and didn't seem to come to much harm. And 6 week weaning was the general consensus, quoted in magazines, books etc. pretty certain we were taught that at college.

l tried not washing out, on one bunch, and it worked, idea was the bugs breeding in the filthy buckets, were the same as in the abomasum. Again this was quoted in books etc. I tried it, it solved a problem, and, for me, l didn't like it, presumably others tried it.

no fault with your routine, its the same as ours, and for me, correctly so, and we produce the goods. But find individual pens better than grouping them, while on milk.

but times change, as a student, the farm l was on, 300 cows in 2 herds, just fed untreated and stored colostrum, filled churns barrels with the stuff, fed 50/50 with hot water. You certainly didn't want to have a hangover, stirring it was vile, but it worked well, good calves the other end.

tried it here, 1976, worked fine, just vile, didn't continue.

mid 80's, milk powder was short, and we fed a chocolate milk powder, our kids reared a calf on it, smelt lovely.

we now feed acidified and stored colostrum/waste milk. The acid keeps it looking all right, saves us a fortune in milk powder costs. There is nothing wrong with our calves, according to mkt reports, which is the defining test, selling stirks.

all farming practices are constantly being revamped, approved etc. Doubt anyone uses dirty buckets to day, but in the 50/60's, it was the big new thing. Just like 6 week weaning, it was the way it was taught. But plenty of calves did absolutely fine on it.

today, different methods have evolved into normal practices. I cannot see us returning to dirty buckets, or 6 week weaning. But we utilise our colostrum and waste milk, thankfully, the acid stops it making you puke. And calves have to eat 2kg to get weaned, some of ours are eating more than that, by weaning.

but those old way's, that you knock, and so do l, worked, calves were absolutely fine.

current thinking is something different.

 

[HarryB97]

Which vaccines are used? Had a bad winter with autumn born calves. Need to try some. Thanks

They arrive having already had bavalto intranasal. We then give them Bavalto 4 three weeks later followed by the second jab at weaning 3-4 weeks later.

 

[som farmer]

I suppose it’s a matter of opinion about weaning at 6 weeks but so far it has been a dream for us its my first time trying it and the reason for change is our old system wasn’t working we used to wean from 8-9 weeks depending on size but seemed to spend every morning injecting off form calves so something had to change. So far this year I’ve had 1 off form calf and they are very content lying down in the field usually close to the ad-lib feeder I’m also still giving them silage as grass is scarce here yet.

that sounds more of an environmental issue. Clean fresh air is a must.

if you are not sure, light a rag in a metal bucket, and watch the smoke, and how long it takes to go.

we have 7 sheds we can rear calves in, tried them all, two are vastly better than the rest, so that's where the calves are on milk.

bought a lot of calves ex farm, seen all types of sheds, from utter shite holes, to state of the art ones. If air movement isn't correct, you will have problems. The best place we bought calves from, was bloody awful, utter shite hole, where calves were kept. They were some of the best calves we bought, 4 yrs we had them, only stopped when he quit milking.

 

[Cmoran]

that sounds more of an environmental issue. Clean fresh air is a must.

if you are not sure, light a rag in a metal bucket, and watch the smoke, and how long it takes to go.

we have 7 sheds we can rear calves in, tried them all, two are vastly better than the rest, so that's where the calves are on milk.

bought a lot of calves ex farm, seen all types of sheds, from utter shite holes, to state of the art ones. If air movement isn't correct, you will have problems. The best place we bought calves from, was bloody awful, utter shite hole, where calves were kept. They were some of the best calves we bought, 4 yrs we had them, only stopped when he quit milking.

Our problem was a bought in problem the farm we bought from was having serious issues with pneumonia but had calves full of injections and we only realised when it was to late needless to say we didn’t buy there again!! Most of our calves are reared on plastic sheep slats and we find they do just as well as the ones reared on straw bedding

 

[som farmer]

a problem we bought in, in 2003, was lice, in the calves, never had a problem before that, and always had one since, despite sheds being empty for months at a time.

and it is surprising how hard it can hit calves. We couldn't quite work out why a group just didn't do, then notices black specks on a white calves back, and it was full of lice.

thankfully, an application of spot-on soon sorted it out, and calves started growing again. But every bunch of calves since, have to be treated at least once, once weaned, no problem.

once turned out, we use cydectin, so that clears any out. But it hit the calves hard.

 

[Princess Pooper]

All these various schemes for young cattle taken through to finishing seem to have come and gone down here. I can't think there is much of a margin involved when you've got the middle man to pay. Better off being paid B&B based on so much per head/week and not having the risk of owning (or having to market) the beasts? Better to be good at the job and rear replacement heifers for a friendly dairy farmer and do a good job and be paid accordingly on trust?

Heifer rearing is all well and good until you have a TB breakdown.....

 

[Princess Pooper]

We used to wean at 6 weeks but calves are much better now that we wean at 8, always with the proviso of concentrate intakes. Ours are coming off true ad lib (ie not on a computerised machine).

 

[som farmer]

Heifer rearing is all well and good until you have a TB breakdown.....

my godson is one of 2 farms, rearing hfr calves for a big unit, as l suggested, he checked he was within the 10ml radius of the dairy, so linked holdings, no problems.

 

[Keithy1394]

Sorry to hijack this thread bought some calves from market 10 days ago ..started scouring abit mucusey muck asked vet said be coccidiosis drenched with vecoxin and there muck improved . Had them on rydration powder in there milk for a week is there anything else i can do to speed there recovery as some still look abit fed up . There all still drinking tho

 

[som farmer]

Sorry to hijack this thread bought some calves from market 10 days ago ..started scouring abit mucusey muck asked vet said be coccidiosis drenched with vecoxin and there muck improved . Had them on rydration powder in there milk for a week is there anything else i can do to speed there recovery as some still look abit fed up . There all still drinking tho

how old were they at mkt ? Don't really associate young calves with cocci, till past weaning.

not a lot more you can do really, milk and rehydrant, if they are drinking,

just make sure they have enough liquid, esp if still loose.

 

[Keithy1394]

how old were they at mkt ? Don't really associate young calves with cocci, till past weaning.

not a lot more you can do really, milk and rehydrant, if they are drinking,

just make sure they have enough liquid, esp if still loose.

6 -7 weeks old and ill just havecto see how they go on

 

[Kiwi Pete]

So need to be looking at each calf consuming a full bag of milk minimum each …

Yep we used to give around 30kg per calf

While the 'give them more for a good start' theory sounds great it's just unneeded expense to give a bigger weaning check, as som farmer said you're better to put that extra money into pellets to develop a rumen, than have a hydroponic calf rearing recipe

 

[Samcowman]

Sorry to hijack this thread bought some calves from market 10 days ago ..started scouring abit mucusey muck asked vet said be coccidiosis drenched with vecoxin and there muck improved . Had them on rydration powder in there milk for a week is there anything else i can do to speed there recovery as some still look abit fed up . There all still drinking tho

Did he take a sample to test? Can often get some scours with a change of diet for example from cows milk then onto powder can upset them but takes a couple of days to show generally.
A good cocci sign is straining when trying to poo and blood when severe.
if they are drinking well and aren’t loose anymore wouldn’t worry with rehydration powder still.