how successful is the joint ill vaccine

beaconsboy · Dec 10, 2015

We tried the joint ill vaccine after the
Advice on the f f . The first year with the double dose of erro or what ever it's called it worked well . second year pretty much hopeless. So what do we do this year. We were on beta mox as they were born but still a lot of problems. All advice please

dazza b · Dec 10, 2015

What's causing the joint hill best to get to bottom of problem I take it u lamb inside?

beaconsboy · Dec 10, 2015

We lamb in side. Clean as a whistle. If we have a few to lamb out side they will get it. Straw up to there arses. What's more annoying. Is you go to other farms and the sheep don't know what straw is and they don't get a problem.

taff · Dec 10, 2015

We give all lambs 1/2mil amoxicillin la when they are born seems to help never herd of a vaccine iam not sure that its not just one of those things some years you get it some you don't!

neilo · Dec 10, 2015

Used to give everything 1 ml of Betamox LA and still got a few, then we started vaccinating against erysyphilis and the problem all but stopped. I reckon that, as long as they get adequate colostrum from a vaccinated ewe, they will stay clear. Any we get are usually short on colostrum or have artificial for whatever reason.

I was persuaded that the vaccine was ineffective by our vet a couple of years ago, who suggested giving every lamb 0.1ml of Draxxin at birth instead. I tried it with one group (Feb lambers) and had around 50% with joint-ill and needing treatment. Lots of good sheep buggered, not to mention the routine/prophylactic ab treatment being far from ideal! Luckily the problem surfaced whilst there was still time to give the annual booster to the larger April lambing flock.

Our indoor lambers have their navels sprayed several times, whereas the outdoor lambers get nothing and never get joint ill, which does suggest it's a management thing.

MJT · Dec 10, 2015

Never even knew there was a vaccine, what sort of money is it, as the antibiotics and anti inflams used to treat infected lambs soon add up ! We tend to be very lucky not getting much at all (touch wood ) put it down to lambing on slats ? Only ones we had with it last year were ewe lambs we had ear notched at birth, obviously infection got in through open wound on ear, even with iodine sprayed on notchers before each lamb.

neilo · Dec 10, 2015

MJT said:
Never even knew there was a vaccine, what sort of money is it, as the antibiotics and anti inflams used to treat infected lambs soon add up ! We tend to be very lucky not getting much at all (touch wood ) put it down to lambing on slats ? Only ones we had with it last year were ewe lambs we had ear notched at birth, obviously infection got in through open wound on ear, even with iodine sprayed on notchers before each lamb.

The only vaccine available now is called Porcilis Ery (previously Eryvac, previously Erysorb ST) which costs about 40p/dose. As Heptavac, 2 doses needed to get them on the system, then an annual booster at the same time as pre-lambing clostridial.

However, if it's not erysyphilis that's causing your joint-ill, the vaccine won't do anything. I'm sure @bovine will be along shortly to confirm.

It has always worked for me though, and much better than routine ab use.

bovine · Dec 10, 2015

The issue is the most common cause of joint ill is a bacteria called Streptococcus dysgalactiae is the most common cause of joint ill in sheep - there is no vaccine.

The vaccine is against Erysipelothrix rhusiopathiae - a particularly virulent cause of joint ill. You need a proper diagnosis really before going down the vaccination route.

Treating all sheep with injectable antibiotic is not a sustainable practice. It will be banned - I have no doubt.

rancher · Dec 11, 2015

bovine said:
The issue is the most common cause of joint ill is a bacteria called Streptococcus dysgalactiae is the most common cause of joint ill in sheep - there is no vaccine.

The vaccine is against Erysipelothrix rhusiopathiae - a particularly virulent cause of joint ill. You need a proper diagnosis really before going down the vaccination route.

Treating all sheep with injectable antibiotic is not a sustainable practice. It will be banned - I have no doubt.

Does giving an antibiotic at birth not reduce the effectiveness of the colostrum..........as well as the effect of the antibiotic eventually

I used erysorb for a while, but as you say it depends on what causes it, I'm using Hibitane + at the moment on the navels as a dip and it's working well but am also cleaning out and disinfecting the individual pens between ewes with sorgene, 5 joint ill cases last year in 750 lambs

bovine · Dec 11, 2015

rancher said:
Does giving an antibiotic at birth not reduce the effectiveness of the colostrum..........as well as the effect of the antibiotic eventually

The colostrum is exactly the same, but there will be inevitable antibiotic resistance at some point if people keep using them like this.

Dipping navels is an interesting discussion point. There is NO evidence it does anything. Some people believe the infection is via the mouth that gets into the blood stream (through the gaps in the gut that allow colostrum absorption) and then settle in the navel. I still recommend people do it, but we don't know if it helps.

Six Dogs · Dec 11, 2015

We suffered big time 2 years ago,this was diagnosed as corny bacterium,despite jabbing any lamb as soon as it was the slightest bit lame,poor results!
On further investigation I discovered erysipelas is difficult to identify at the lab,last year not as bad but still some,this coming spring I'm going to try the porcillius vax on half.Oh and we lamb outside,our vet has done a lot of research,interestingly more papers recently identifying a rise in cases,for what ever reason I have seen 5 times the no of cases of joint ill in the past 2 years than in the previous 20 years of shepherding put together!

firther · Dec 11, 2015

have you noticed since people started using heptavac etc, there seems to be more diseases around.

Frank-the-Wool · Dec 11, 2015

firther said:
have you noticed since people started using heptavac etc, there seems to be more diseases around.

Well as they have now been used for over 40 years and before there were clostridial vaccines thousands of sheep used to die I am not sure that is a valid point.
There are not more diseases, just a better knowledge of what they might be!!

Bury the Trash · Dec 11, 2015

Do the germs live longer now,suggestion for usefull ongoing studies/trials ir would be how long in farm enviroment(or otherwise) these bugs 'hang around' viably.
Also Lambs sucking contaminated wool.- perhaps very carefull bellying out before lambing /wool around lower back legs.Do woolshedders have an advantage in that respect?

neilo · Dec 11, 2015

Bury the Trash said:
Do the germs live longer now,suggestion for usefull ongoing studies/trials ir would be how long in farm enviroment(or otherwise) these bugs 'hang around' viably.
Also Lambs sucking contaminated wool.- perhaps very carefull bellying out before lambing /wool around lower back legs.Do woolshedders have an advantage in that respect?

We get joint-ill in the indoor lambing ewes, especially if they don't get adequate (vaccinated) colostrum. That's in Charollais ewes that don't have woolly bellies generally. The outdoor lambs from Highlander ewes (never crutched or bellied out) just don't seem to have that problem, despite never touching navels. :scratchhead:

Derrick Hughes · Dec 11, 2015

beaconsboy said:
We tried the joint ill vaccine after the
Advice on the f f . The first year with the double dose of erro or what ever it's called it worked well . second year pretty much hopeless. So what do we do this year. We were on beta mox as they were born but still a lot of problems. All advice please

Di you give the booster 2 cd year

the worst year we had it was running at over 20%, , I didnt help that the ewes may have been housed to long , December until mid Feb, over 3 years it just got worse, every lamb being dipped and injected with LA at birth , on the 4th year we injected with that vaccine on vets advice, now I cant explain this but we never ever had one case again

MRT · Dec 11, 2015

It isn't just getting enough colostrum with the right antibodies, equally important is that the first protein that hits the stomach is colostrum in large amounts, if lamby ingests anything else first it stimulates the gut to close and antibody protection cannot be passed across this route after - 2 hours I think it was.

Maybe your Highlanders are more vigorous straight away and take a bigger feed in the first two hours?

Bury the Trash · Dec 11, 2015

neilo said:
We get joint-ill in the indoor lambing ewes, especially if they don't get adequate (vaccinated) colostrum. That's in Charollais ewes that don't have woolly bellies generally. The outdoor lambs from Highlander ewes (never crutched or bellied out) just don't seem to have that problem, despite never touching navels.

I agree (i think

) last season the problem i had with it was in a group of tailenders- they had been housed earlier ,for a period of time then turned out from then on ( mild weather)- including lambing out.

Six Dogs · Dec 11, 2015

A lot of the new research shows it is not always entering through the navel or wound,ie ear tag,it is quite common to be ingested

PFH · Dec 11, 2015

Six Dogs said:
A lot of the new research shows it is not always entering through the navel or wound,ie ear tag,it is quite common to be ingested

Interesting......I've just asked the same question on the watery mouth thread but does anyone use the Terramycin tablets for lambs?

how successful is the joint ill vaccine

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