"Project fear" proven right....GOVERNMENT WASTES NO TIME IN SHUTTING DOWN UK FARMS!!!!

jh.

Member
Location
fife
Why do you feel the need to tell us that? If i find a advantage over other farmers I'll keep it quiet.

As i said in another thread, zero tills like veganism. Those participating can't help telling everyone.

Even at 3.53 in the morning.
It will probably be the route we all get forced down eventually so hearing it works is handy.

There will possibly be an allowable percentage we can plough each year, similar to us having a 3 crop , rule for reseeds or veg but I'm sure the plough for cereals is surely on borrowed time now
 

Derrick Hughes

Member
Location
Ceredigion
Do you have a plan for if/when glyphosate is removed from the toolkit with a stroke of a politician’s pen? DD will lose favour quite rapidly again, as it did in the seventies.

I’m all for DD here too, but very aware that a decision made in an office in London (or Cardiff) could make it untenable.
How did we farm before 1974. I supposed we used Paraquat but peolple have farmered without either
We need to develop new ideas quick that are not so risky to used . What about weed electrocution hows that one going
 
That's not the point though, why should you have to? I accept that the lifestyle is great, but in all honesty how many people can live on 10k?? On top of that so many farms will go bust who aren't rent free as a consequence why would you be happy with that. Why any farmer or business would be happy to lose a large proportion of their income is beyond me.
Not all years are the same, some good, some bad, some excellent.if your not in tou WONT win
 
Take pride out of the equation this is business were talking about, an industry, getting by without enough to reinvest or allowing a rent or return on the land isnt something to be proud of we can all go stack shelves in tesco and get by with no investment whatsoever
Same grave will hold us, I seen a man who was drunk most of his life, live longer than the man who never was in the house because his farm was so big
 

ajd132

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Suffolk
How did we farm before 1974. I supposed we used Paraquat but peolple have farmered without either
We need to develop new ideas quick that are not so risky to used . What about weed electrocution hows that one going
It’s coming. Small robot company are working with another company to put a zapper on an autonomous robot that can be left. They actually had the robot on my farm a few weeks ago as I think they are trying to teach the algorithm to recognise blackgrass from wheat, we have plenty of blackgrass!
 
So people have been using BP to aquire more land and increase holding size. And there was me thinking the CAP was there to protect the fabric of rural communities. In reality it has accelerated the dash towards industrial scale farming, squeezed out smaller family farms and made the incredibly rich even richer. It has inflated land values and rents making then out of reach of new entrants and the cautious self reliant smaller farmer.

And people want more of this. Presumably so they can be the biggest of them all.
the opposite is true infact it has kept smaller guys going, most havent sold because they "had" to but for other reasons such as sucession and with land prices good it has given them a comfortable retirement
 

farmerm

Member
Location
Shropshire
Because hopefully I can start charging people to show them how to do it when they are all forced too and have no idea.
the point was some people on this thread are so obsessed with subsidies they aren’t looking at what they are doing themselves.
I have a month old baby, hence why I was up then.
No-till appeals to me but can I produce good yields from no till on fairly heavy ground, without roundup and can I afford the drill for a meagre 170Ac of arable?
 
this presentation outlines defras thinking

https://assets.publishing.service.g...-bill-evidence-slide-pack-direct-payments.pdf

Long term vs. short term impacts of removing Direct Payments Depreciation is used to account for declines in value of a tangible asset, by allocating it a cost over its useful life. It does not alter the day to day cash flow of a business. Therefore in the short term, when looking at the impact of instantly removing Direct Payments, depreciation costs can be excluded, and so only 19% of farms would not be able to cover their production costs. In the long term farm businesses need to consider their depreciation costs as they will need to replace and maintain machinery and buildings. Therefore on page 25 we will consider the necessary adjustments for the 42% of farms that make a loss on their accounts without Direct Payments but with depreciation.

pg25
On average, farms who would have made a loss without Direct Payments in their accounts had £90 in outputs for every £100 they spent on inputs. In order for them to break even without Direct Payments they would need to reduce their costs by 10% to £90 to match their output, or increase output as well as reducing costs.

its simple, defra says we just need to spend 10% less on everything while maintaining output.

why haven't we thought of that before! :unsure:
defra are being slightly more than patronising here, why would you not include depreciation? if you take depreciation out you must put annual machinery payments on hp in, a big farm which is being hit hardest with the cuts will be racking up a lot of hours on machinery and cant just ignore these costs
 

ajd132

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Suffolk
No-till appeals to me but can I produce good yields from no till on fairly heavy ground, without roundup and can I afford the drill for a meagre 170Ac of arable?
The glyphosate thing isn’t part of the argument imo. I’ve visited enough zero till farms on all soil types to know it works, the main difference between failure and success being the attitude of the farmer.
admittedly being on a small acerage makes any kind of machinery change difficult, I get that.
 

farmerm

Member
Location
Shropshire
The glyphosate thing isn’t part of the argument imo. I’ve visited enough zero till farms on all soil types to know it works, the main difference between failure and success being the attitude of the farmer.
admittedly being on a small acerage makes any kind of machinery change difficult, I get that.
Plough /combi never seems to fail, regardless of my attitude :ROFLMAO:
 

Chris F

Staff Member
Media
Location
Hammerwich
this presentation outlines defras thinking

https://assets.publishing.service.g...-bill-evidence-slide-pack-direct-payments.pdf

Long term vs. short term impacts of removing Direct Payments Depreciation is used to account for declines in value of a tangible asset, by allocating it a cost over its useful life. It does not alter the day to day cash flow of a business. Therefore in the short term, when looking at the impact of instantly removing Direct Payments, depreciation costs can be excluded, and so only 19% of farms would not be able to cover their production costs. In the long term farm businesses need to consider their depreciation costs as they will need to replace and maintain machinery and buildings. Therefore on page 25 we will consider the necessary adjustments for the 42% of farms that make a loss on their accounts without Direct Payments but with depreciation.

pg25
On average, farms who would have made a loss without Direct Payments in their accounts had £90 in outputs for every £100 they spent on inputs. In order for them to break even without Direct Payments they would need to reduce their costs by 10% to £90 to match their output, or increase output as well as reducing costs.

its simple, defra says we just need to spend 10% less on everything while maintaining output.

why haven't we thought of that before! :unsure:

Was going to add a link to those slides myself this morning. Worth reading.
 
Because hopefully I can start charging people to show them how to do it when they are all forced too and have no idea.
the point was some people on this thread are so obsessed with subsidies they aren’t looking at what they are doing themselves.
I have a month old baby, hence why I was up then.
how well does no till work in a 1200mm rainfall area? 1500mm in 2012
 
Because hopefully I can start charging people to show them how to do it when they are all forced too and have no idea.
the point was some people on this thread are so obsessed with subsidies they aren’t looking at what they are doing themselves.
I have a month old baby, hence why I was up then.
how well does no till work in a 1200mm rainfall area? 1500mm in 2012
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
It will probably be the route we all get forced down eventually so hearing it works is handy.

There will possibly be an allowable percentage we can plough each year, similar to us having a 3 crop , rule for reseeds or veg but I'm sure the plough for cereals is surely on borrowed time now
It's been on borrowed time since they first made a plough to be connected to a tractor, really; and I'm not just talking a UK context but largely everywhere where 'production agriculture' takes place.

30 years ago they weren't really looking at bare bare soil the way they do today, and by 'they' I mean other humans.. it used to be just dust, now they call it "soil erosion"

Eventually the question will be asked, "do we really need to do all that stuff, just so we can have too much sugar and starch on the shelves in the supermarket"? and the answer will likely not be pretty.... in my opinion.

Look how the words "plant based diet" stirs the internet bison :rolleyes:o_O:LOL::LOL:
I think anyone in for 'more of the status quo' had better buckle their straps because the world is now ruled by more opinions than ever before
 

Danllan

Member
Location
Sir Gar / Carms
waken up there is no level playing field when irish subs are going up and their beef is flooding across the border
You'll be delighted to know that a huge amount of 'Irish' beef is really just beef coming through the ROI from elsewhere in the EU. This being so, it is something that we shall soon be able to rein in. :)

How did we farm before 1974. I supposed we used Paraquat but peolple have farmered without either
We need to develop new ideas quick that are not so risky to used . What about weed electrocution hows that one going
See below.

It’s coming. Small robot company are working with another company to put a zapper on an autonomous robot that can be left. They actually had the robot on my farm a few weeks ago as I think they are trying to teach the algorithm to recognise blackgrass from wheat, we have plenty of blackgrass!
Excellent news; this is the way forward, like the coming of electric vehicles - ag and domestic - it will be here before we know it and then we'll wonder why it wasn't here sooner.

how well does no till work in a 1200mm rainfall area? 1500mm in 2012
Really well, because your soil structure will improve and then be able to maintain its integrity. (y)
 

Bury the Trash

Member
Mixed Farmer
It will probably be the route we all get forced down eventually so hearing it works is handy.

There will possibly be an allowable percentage we can plough each year, similar to us having a 3 crop , rule for reseeds or veg but I'm sure the plough for cereals is surely on borrowed time now
Makes you wonder how developers , ( house building) road builders airport run way builders concrete layers etc will be regulated in the future, because atm the soil removed from production ( for good ? ) by them makes arable farmers :sneaky: look like cute little playfull kittens.
 

Hindsight

Member
Location
Lincolnshire
defra are being slightly more than patronising here, why would you not include depreciation? if you take depreciation out you must put annual machinery payments on hp in, a big farm which is being hit hardest with the cuts will be racking up a lot of hours on machinery and cant just ignore these costs

I concurr with you, but my interpretation is that DEFRA consider as depreciation is a non cash item there is in effect positive cash flow effect to tide over the first few years of the transition to no direct payments and the introduction of ELMs that may provide an alternative source of government funding.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 105 40.5%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 94 36.3%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 39 15.1%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 5 1.9%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.2%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 13 5.0%

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