Extinction, the facts BBC.

Ffermer Bach · Sep 15, 2020

DrWazzock said:
Is there anything wrong in engineering the world to suit our purpose? Should we feel obliged to protect endangered species at the expense of human wellbeing? Sure enough I see no need for wanton destruction of habitat by and large but when push comes to shove and it’s your family that needs a living, feeding or a home, what would you do about say a newt inhabiting half an acre of scrub:

I think we don't price in Eco system services at the moment when we value the natural world, article in the Guardian a few months back talking about global pandemics spreading from wildlife (as it is being squeezed due to loss of habitats).

And remember, what is good for me is not necessarily what is good for society.

If I farmed in a catchment above a big town it would be good for me to clean all my ditches out and when it rained, get all the water off my farm as quickly as possible, however that may not be good for all the people who live in the town!

This is where society has to put limits on what an individual can do, when it affects the society as a whole.

Clive · Sep 15, 2020

wanton dwarf said:
Most people in the UK do not actively kill any species. There are those - mainly in cities - who buy products which are directly or indirectly involved in loss of habitat. Most notibly "Environmentalists" who have succeeded in poisoning our oceans with plastic becuase they cannot be bothered to do their jobs.

The climate is not a coal face. The weather changes year after year. If you cannot farm then let someone else who can.

As the Earth warms more and more CO2 & CH4 will leak from the permafrost .. it will happen regardless of what you or anyone else will do. Even if CO2 remained at 400ppm the Earth will continue to get warmer because the orbit of the Earth has changed.

Alternatively if you succeed in destroying UK farming Billionaires who bought African land for a song will become even richer.

Don't like the truth ? Your new very expensive car is a hypocrasy on everything you say. My car is 20+ years old. I do less than 5,000 miles a year. I have lived for years without a car or any vehicle.

I'm not guilty of anything. If you are I suggest you practice what you preach.

there is little doubt that EV’s are better for the environment that burning fossil fuel especially when electricity is generated bu nuclear or renewable as is increasingly the case. Im about to install solar that will more than offset power my new family car uses, I fail to see how thsts not a positive move environmentally

Our family car does over 20k miles a year, - much as i would love to keep it 20 years im not sure it’s viable to do so.

Someone else will own it after me i’m sure - how does a car having a single owner all its life make it better environmentally than having several owners through its useful life ? ......... do i detect some bitterness here !

I just sold a pickup (to a recycler) bought new in 2003 so 17 yrs old and we run plenty of older cars and machinery so fail to see your point as any more than a cheap personal shot at me

Clive · Sep 15, 2020

S J H said:
Are you giving up racing aswell then?

2 years since I last raced a car now, too busy and getting to old for all that !

doubt the carbon footprint is as high as you might think though, probably far less than even a very short flight ? 100L of fuel would cover most races I did, even 24hr races you ate hardly talking a tanker full ......... bet my combine uses more fuel today !

Campbell · Sep 15, 2020

Listened to part of Farming Today this morning. Essence of the report was that the world soils have less than 100 harvests left in them, and that I assume will be on a sliding scale. All a bit depressing.

Henarar · Sep 15, 2020

Clive said:
there is little doubt that EV’s are better for the environment that burning fossil fuel especially when electricity is generated bu nuclear or renewable as is increasingly the case. Im about to install solar that will more than offset power my new family car uses, I fail to see how thsts not a positive move environmentally

Our family car does over 20k miles a year, - much as i would love to keep it 20 years im not sure it’s viable to do so.

Someone else will own it after me i’m sure - how does a car having a single owner all its life make it better environmentally than having several owners through its useful life ? ......... do i detect some bitterness here !

I just sold a pickup (to a recycler) bought new in 2003 so 17 yrs old and we run plenty of older cars and machinery so fail to see your point as any more than a cheap personal shot at me

perhaps there is no bitterness, perhaps he just thinks you should stay home more, wouldn't that be better still for the environment
see what WD has to say
seems to be the rich that can afford that sort of thing and the virtue signalling that goes with it looking down on the poor that can't
Do you think you will be flying off on a ski trip or two next year or are you going to give it a miss again this time for the sake of the planet ?

N.Yorks. · Sep 15, 2020

Henarar said:
perhaps there is no bitterness, perhaps he just thinks you should stay home more, wouldn't that be better still for the environment
see what WD has to say
seems to be the rich that can afford that sort of thing and the virtue signalling that goes with it looking down on the poor that can't
Do you think you will be flying off on a ski trip or two next year or are you going to give it a miss again this time for the sake of the planet ?

It's fully possible to get skiing done without flying. Brother in law got himself an electric car last year, planned his charging stops etc and got to northern Italy no problem. Most charges were in France which has a lot of nuclear power generation so definitely very low CO2 journey.........

S J H · Sep 15, 2020

Clive said:
2 years since I last raced a car now, too busy and getting to old for all that !

doubt the carbon footprint is as high as you might think though, probably far less than even a very short flight ? 100L of fuel would cover most races I did, even 24hr races you ate hardly talking a tanker full ......... bet my combine uses more fuel today !

Fair play, but i still don’t see how any of us can criticise what’s happening in another country from our position.

Henarar · Sep 15, 2020

N.Yorks. said:
It's fully possible to get skiing done without flying. Brother in law got himself an electric car last year, planned his charging stops etc and got to northern Italy no problem. Most charges were in France which has a lot of nuclear power generation so definitely very low CO2 journey.........

kinda proves my point
those that stay home cos they can't afford the ski trip let alone the EV had a very very very very very very very very low CO2 journey didn't they and everyone can out to say how wonderful they were

Ukjay · Sep 15, 2020

Well, if one thing can be taken from this thread, it is definitely showing just how dispicable and jealous people have become - and more worryingly, continue to try and defend a kind of Ostrich Syndrome to the continuity of the demise of the environment by the not in my back yard viewpoint.

DrWazzock · Sep 15, 2020

Truth be told those of us who are “tight” or careful with money do more to help the environment than big spenders.
If I kept my small diesel car for another 20 years and only go to market Rasen once a month then my footprint will be a lot less than anybody who buys an electric vehicle and does two foreign holidays a year.
Every time we do anything we “damage” the natural environment. Get used to it , but try to minimise it by doing less, spending less, breeding less. All of course the opposite to the general consensus of how we should live according to government and society at large.
I have no kids and live modestly. I don’t travel unless it’s essential. Like my old man I’m considered tight and boring but that’s what saves resources. We only strive for greater efficiency not greater consumption. All counter to the economic model that relies on growth and ever more expenditure. HS2, third runway all those obscene icons of consumptionist society.
No, ad extremis, if we really cared about the environment we’d all be subscribing to mass euthanasia, making way for lovely old benign Mother Nature which is another complete myth of course. Mother Nature is fairly evil.

Humble Village Farmer · Sep 15, 2020

DrWazzock said:
Is there anything wrong in engineering the world to suit our purpose? Should we feel obliged to protect endangered species at the expense of human wellbeing? Sure enough I see no need for wanton destruction of habitat by and large but when push comes to shove and it’s your family that needs a living, feeding or a home, what would you do about say a newt inhabiting half an acre of scrub:

No, we destroy endangered species at the expense of human wellbeing. We live in an ecosystem which by definition must be diverse to function. The less diverse it is the less functional and therefore the less healthy for all it's inhabitants, including us. The attitude of "it's only for me and my family and bollards to everyone else" has got us where we are.

kiwi pom · Sep 15, 2020

I bet many of the people in some of these poorer countries have a much lower carbon footprint than the ones complaining they're ruining the planet.

Henarar said:
kinda proves my point
those that stay home cos they can't afford the ski trip let alone the EV had a very very very very very very very very low CO2 journey didn't they and everyone can out to say how wonderful they were

Transport's interesting, how green does it need to be before it compares to just not using it as much? Our family car does very little, we live near work and the kids go to the local school on their push bikes. No 2 hour commutes or sending kids miles away to school, try and shop local, not off on holiday every few weeks etc.

Can we ignore the fact I've lived and worked on 3 continents?

Henarar · Sep 15, 2020

Ukjay said:
Well, if one thing can be taken from this thread, it is definitely showing just how dispicable and jealous people have become - and more worryingly, continue to try and defend a kind of Ostrich Syndrome to the continuity of the demise of the environment by the not in my back yard viewpoint.

Yep, buy an EV and bury your head that you are doing any damage at all with anything else you do
Its like the tv presenters that fly round the fecking world in effort to prove that cattle are fecking the place up without giving a sh1t as to what they are doing

Henarar · Sep 15, 2020

kiwi pom said:
I bet many of the people in some of these poorer countries have a much lower carbon footprint than the ones complaining they're ruining the planet.

Transport's interesting, how green does it need to be before it compares to just not using it as much? Our family car does very little, we live near work and the kids go to the local school on their push bikes. No 2 hour commutes or sending kids miles away to school, try and shop local, not off on holiday every few weeks etc.

Can we ignore the fact I've lived and worked on 3 continents?

Isnt much of the problem in the manufacturing, simply using it less or not at all and making it last longer is the way.
Didn't pollution go down during lockdown, was this because everyone rushed out of
To buy an EV and all the cows stopped burping or was it because everyone fecking well stayed home,
I won't be lectured to by some fecker that has half a dozen kids and flies off on half a dozen holidays every year as well as god knows how many car miles

Humble Village Farmer · Sep 15, 2020

DrWazzock said:
Truth be told those of us who are “tight” or careful with money do more to help the environment than big spenders.
If I kept my small diesel car for another 20 years and only go to market Rasen once a month then my footprint will be a lot less than anybody who buys an electric vehicle and does two foreign holidays a year.
Every time we do anything we “damage” the natural environment. Get used to it , but try to minimise it by doing less, spending less, breeding less. All of course the opposite to the general consensus of how we should live according to government and society at large.
I have no kids and live modestly. I don’t travel unless it’s essential. Like my old man I’m considered tight and boring but that’s what saves resources. We only strive for greater efficiency not greater consumption. All counter to the economic model that relies on growth and ever more expenditure. HS2, third runway all those obscene icons of consumptionist society.
No, ad extremis, if we really cared about the environment we’d all be subscribing to mass euthanasia, making way for lovely old benign Mother Nature which is another complete myth of course. Mother Nature is fairly evil.

Unfortunately mass euthanasia like war and indifference to starvation or pandemics is no longer seen as woke or pc. But they are mother nature's valiant efforts to do something about the growing monoculture that is humanity

SilliamWhale · Sep 15, 2020

What species have gone extinct in the UK in the last 60 years? Not many.

Read Rackhams History of the British Countryside and you will find many generations before us hunted out the last of lots of creatures

Ukjay · Sep 15, 2020

Henarar said:
Yep, buy an EV and bury your head that you are doing any damage at all with anything else you do
Its like the tv presenters that fly round the fecking world in effort to prove that cattle are fecking the place up without giving a sh1t as to what they are doing

Sadly that comes across with a fair amount of resentment, hostility and jealousy there.

Do you not buy into the equation that we are all guilty then.. Or is it just the rich, as I thought we all actively play a part to the outcome here?

Humble Village Farmer · Sep 15, 2020

Ukjay said:
Sadly that comes across with a fair amount of resentment, hostility and jealousy there.

Do you not buy into the equation that we are all guilty then.. Or is it just the rich, as I thought we all actively play a part to the outcome here?

There's a common thread here which is that it's all somebody else's fault.

delilah · Sep 15, 2020

DrWazzock said:
It is as it is for a reason

Cheap fuel.
Cheap because none of its externalities - pollution, congestion, road building, port expansion - are internalized.
Once they are, the current model is fooked.

DaveGrohl said:
This is a big part of the problem that Delilah is railing against. Human nature. Don't get me wrong, I'd love us to go back to localism and massively reducing the power of the the supermarkets, and also the massive food manufacturers that are gearing up to sell us even more crap that will damage our health rather than improving it. But humans are becoming ever lazier and luuurve going to do their food shopping in one go. How that problem is solved I've no idea.

Market share can be drastically revered without Joe Public noticing. folks like doing their weekly shop under one roof/ on one website. No problem. The problem is that all those roofs and websites are owned by an oligopoly. That can be changed, and your neighbour wont have to notice. You will, because you will see the differences in how the marketplace operates, but the public wont.

Ffermer Bach said:
I agree, but there is a problem with the environmental movement, there was an article in Saturdays Telegraph, basically saying most people in the UK want to do more for the environment and nature, but don't support Extinction Rebellion (when social attitudes surveys show they agree with the fact action is needed over the climate & environment crisis). This is because, the environmental movement also encompass all the rag tag of far left ideas, such as LGBT rights, destroy capitalism etc and this stops the general public supporting the core views about the environmental issues.

XR isn't the environment movement.
https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index...ellion-and-farming.293966/page-2#post-6429336

Ukjay · Sep 15, 2020

Humble Village Farmer said:
There's a common thread here which is that it's all somebody else's fault.

It's definitely an interesting thread, as it is showing a side of people that helps understand why we continue to go faster into the downward spiral...

Extinction, the facts BBC.

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