Buying sprays independently

ollie989898 · Oct 25, 2022

Feldspar said:
Completely agree.

I think agronomists putting blanket applications of actives over thousands of acres haven't helped either. Mind, farmers who are putting everything on at excessive rates won't be helping matters, either. I've known people go out and put slug pellets on a crop just because they think it will rain, or go out and spray everything to the exact inch trying to control weeds under hedge. Others still will go out and borrow from or use grain as seed knowing it is from a filthy source and then have to throw the kitchen sink at it to try and clean the resultant crop up. Others don't maximise the use of rotation or are blanketing individual fields with slurry year on year application after application. There is plenty of bad practice out there if you go to look for it.

Feldspar · Oct 25, 2022

ollie989898 said:
I think agronomists putting blanket applications of actives over thousands of acres haven't helped either. Mind, farmers who are putting everything on at excessive rates won't be helping matters, either. I've known people go out and put slug pellets on a crop just because they think it will rain, or go out and spray everything to the exact inch trying to control weeds under hedge. Others still will go out and borrow from or use grain as seed knowing it is from a filthy source and then have to throw the kitchen sink at it to try and clean the resultant crop up. Others don't maximise the use of rotation or are blanketing individual fields with slurry year on year application after application. There is plenty of bad practice out there if you go to look for it.

I agree also. But I have specific experience with some distributor agronomists that leads me to the view that I hold about serviced agronomy. It's not a case of all serviced agronomists are bad apples, no, nearly all are decent people. However, those higher up the chain of these companies are too willing to prioritise profit at the expense of farmers without sufficient technical knowledge to know better.

nxy · Oct 25, 2022

ollie989898 said:
How is this service funded?

Arvalis is partly (50% ish) by a levy on crop sales, a bit by the state and a bit by commercial research. There are other sources of information like the local chambre d'agriculture most are generally funded by a mix of levy on sales and tax payer (both french and EU) funds.

Bigjon44 · Oct 25, 2022

Clive said:
join www.farmdeals.ag - unlike other buying groups there is no membership fee or insistence on exclusivity

it has struggled to get supply of a full range of crop protection products in its first 18 months as it seems this is an industry that is threatened by efficient competition but its getting better and stronger all the time and can now supply most cereal products at equal or better prices than most traditional buying groups

Yes Clive keep up the good work. Keep adding more chems!!

Bigjon44 · Oct 25, 2022

SilliamWhale said:
I don't have as many options but to be honest I'm buy nearly everything from agrii and I don't think I've been ripped off badly yet as long as you ask for cheapest supply only. I do check though.

To their credit they are extremely reliable.

I find agronomy in the main very predictable anyway: Wheat always has a pre-em and broadway star and 2 sdhi's, osr always gets kerb, beans always get nirvana and a 2 spray fungicide etc. I don't really understand how its become such a massive industry really as most products seem to be variations of the same fundamentals. You can predict your weed burdens once you know your farm.

Remember last year when all the sprayers were blocking up with fungicide? A mistake but it goes to show mistakes can be made my anyone in the chain.

Correct. When you run your own farm and been doing the spraying a fair few years you get to know your fields and where your problems lie.every year is different in farming but the main 80% nucleus is always there

Clive · Oct 25, 2022

5 companies (probably 4 soon) control almost ALL ag chem supply in the uk directly or indirectly

gross margins are 30-40% and manufacturers live in fear of supplying anyone beyond the 5

buying groups and small independent dealers are all 2nd tier suppliers, one of the big 5 will have taken their cut

this is the ugly truth of uk crop protection supply and its where most of uk ags arable margin disappears - it does not function efficiently or in farmers best interests, changing this is the single most positive change uk farmers can make

in other countries ag chemical supply doesn’t work this way, the uk is quite a unique (and lucrative) market

Clive · Oct 25, 2022

Bigjon44 said:
Yes Clive keep up the good work. Keep adding more chems!!

its hard to do - we have to go to great lengths to hide sources or they get shut down, we have even had to start registering our own product names now to hide the manufacturer whom are keen and happy to supply farmers directly at much lower cost !

it’s all VERY wrong and needs to change

Clive · Oct 25, 2022

Feldspar said:
I agree also. But I have specific experience with some distributor agronomists that leads me to the view that I hold about serviced agronomy. It's not a case of all serviced agronomists are bad apples, no, nearly all are decent people. However, those higher up the chain of these companies are too willing to prioritise profit at the expense of farmers without sufficient technical knowledge to know better.

i actually believe there is a good case for serviced agronomy in some cases, some have been caught clearly talking the pee / “dynamic” pricing etc but it would be unfair to say all are bad

the control over the market by so few distributers is very wrong however ……… illegal even some may speculate and this must change

nxy · Oct 26, 2022

Clive said:
its hard to do - we have to go to great lengths to hide sources or they get shut down, we have even had to start registering our own product names now to hide the manufacturer whom are keen and happy to supply farmers directly at much lower cost !

it’s all VERY wrong and needs to change

A lot of the chemicals sold on line here are parallel imports from within the EU. Generally the boxes are opened and a new label stuck on the cans over the old foreign language one.
To be legal the French supplier has had to register a new name, my particular favourite for imported Alabama is Sweet Home. Sometimes they even just spell the name backwards or move one letter.

Clive · Oct 26, 2022

nxy said:
A lot of the chemicals sold on line here are parallel imports from within the EU. Generally the boxes are opened and a new label stuck on the cans over the old foreign language one.
To be legal the French supplier has had to register a new name, my particular favourite for imported Alabama is Sweet Home. Sometimes they even just spell the name backwards or move one letter.

actually Very few parallel’s and lots of (UK made) generics more usually on FarmDeals etc

the parallel market hasn’t worked so well post brexit or with weak £ and regulation means its about to come to an end, another nail in the cofin as less choice and competition which WILL push costs up

farmers and their representatives have made no effort whatsoever to campaign to keep this market alive, its like uk distribution have some influence or membership of our farming unions or something isn’t it !

farmers are (as usual) being screwed by those that claim to represent best interest

Bob R · Oct 26, 2022

Thanks for all your reply’s very useful. Sounds like the buying group option is going to be the simplest way forward for my situation

Thomas Simpson · Oct 26, 2022

We use woldmarsh buying group and find them very good.

Thomas Simpson · Oct 26, 2022

Clive said:
5 companies (probably 4 soon) control almost ALL ag chem supply in the uk directly or indirectly

gross margins are 30-40% and manufacturers live in fear of supplying anyone beyond the 5

buying groups and small independent dealers are all 2nd tier suppliers, one of the big 5 will have taken their cut

this is the ugly truth of uk crop protection supply and its where most of uk ags arable margin disappears - it does not function efficiently or in farmers best interests, changing this is the single most positive change uk farmers can make

in other countries ag chemical supply doesn’t work this way, the uk is quite a unique (and lucrative) market

Bit like the supermarkets.

Clive · Oct 26, 2022

Thomas Simpson said:
Bit like the supermarkets.

far worse frankly

Buying sprays independently

ollie989898

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Feldspar

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nxy

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Bigjon44

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Bigjon44

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Clive

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Clive

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Clive

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nxy

Member

Clive

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Bob R

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Thomas Simpson

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Thomas Simpson

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Clive

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SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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