Electric vehicles will cost more to run than petrol vehicles after October

Drillman · Jan 15, 2023

Funny Farmer said:
The genny is just for extending the range it's probably no more than 2kVA so wouldn't be capable of sustaining the car.

No I wasn’t getting at that

what I’m asking is

is it cheaper to buy a car similar to that and run it on petrol

or

buy a car like the above and use a genny like that wen it needs filling up with electricity?

which option burns the most fuel basically?

Finn farmer · Jan 15, 2023

Funny Farmer said:
The genny is just for extending the range it's probably no more than 2kVA so wouldn't be capable of sustaining the car.

And you can't even charge the car while it's running.

Drillman said:
No I wasn’t getting at that

what I’m asking is

is it cheaper to buy a car similar to that and run it on petrol

or

buy a car like the above and use a genny like that wen it needs filling up with electricity?

which option burns the most fuel basically?

Depends on the price of electricity and petrol. If electricity costs 60cnt/kWh and petrol 2€/liter it'd cost approximately the same.

Drillman · Jan 15, 2023

Finn farmer said:
And you can't even charge the car while it's running.

Depends on the price of electricity and petrol. If electricity costs 60cnt

Again no assume your using the fuel from the same pump to fill the petrol car and the genny so around £1.50 a litre at the moment as a ballpark.

Finn farmer · Jan 15, 2023

Drillman said:
Again no assume your using the fuel from the same pump to fill the petrol car and the genny so around £1.50 a litre at the moment as a ballpark.

I added some text, as the message was sent early by accident. Those rough figures are from real world numbers from here. You'll need to take into account that not all Ev's use the same amount of electricity, Tesla being one of the most efficient Ev's.

Generators efficiency is something inbetween 0,3 to 0,35, so you'll get 3 to 3,5kWh per liter of petrol. So roughly 5 to 6 liters needs to be consumed to drive 100km.

Again. Rough numbers, but will give you some direction. As it is now, there's no sense to use generator here, might be different somewhere else.

Drillman · Jan 15, 2023

Finn farmer said:
I added some text, as the message was sent early by accident. Those rough figures are from real world numbers from here. You'll need to take into account that not all Ev's use the same amount of electricity, Tesla being one of the most efficient Ev's.

Generators efficiency is something inbetween 0,3 to 0,35, so you'll get 3 to 3,5kWh per liter of petrol. So roughly 5 to 6 liters needs to be consumed to drive 100km.

Again. Rough numbers, but will give you some direction. As it is now, there's no sense to use generator here, might be different somewhere else.

So your saying using a genny to charge the average mondeo size EV would do the equivalent to 50-60mpg?

if that’s correct it makes the whole EV thing stack up nicely in the example I was after figures for apart from purchase cost.

yes I realise in the real world using a little chug chug genny makes no sense but was just after numbers to make a comparison

Paddington · Aug 19, 2023

Holidaymaker shocked by £70 Telford Tesco car park fine for using electric vehicle charger

A holidaymaker is angry after he was fined £70 for spending an hour charging his electric car on a Telford supermarket car park - because the free-parking time limit is cut from three hours to 15 minutes when the store is shut.

www.shropshirestar.com

Every little doesn't help.

Dave645 · Aug 19, 2023

Drillman said:
So your saying using a genny to charge the average mondeo size EV would do the equivalent to 50-60mpg?

if that’s correct it makes the whole EV thing stack up nicely in the example I was after figures for apart from purchase cost.

yes I realise in the real world using a little chug chug genny makes no sense but was just after numbers to make a comparison

https://www.nowthenenergy.co.uk/news/diesel-gen-or-grid
So about 49p/kwh for a gen.
So at upto 5 miles per kWh (Tesla) around 10p/ mile.
The ice car at the same cost per mile, would have to do 68 miles per gallon. At £1.50/ liter.
If the EV does 4 miles per kWh.
Then the ice car would have to do 55 miles per gallon.

throw in savings on service, road tax, tax incentives, the fact you can charge the EV from solar or night rate electric, for as low as 18p/kwh in the uk.
Would mean the ice car would have to do 151 miles per gallon to be as good as an EV doing 4 miles per kWh.
But a Tesla doing 5miles per kWh that jumps to 189 miles per gallon for the ice car. For an EV charged on night rate electric even now in the uk.

Pie face · Aug 19, 2023

Did anyone see Edwina Curry being interviewed a few weeks back on TV. She was extolling the benifits of her now 2nd electric car. She said " electric cars are great because although they cost a lot more to buy, they are then free to run because you don't need petrol, you just plug them in"

Dave645 · Aug 19, 2023

Pie face said:
Did anyone see Edwina Curry being interviewed a few weeks back on TV. She was extolling the benifits of her now 2nd electric car. She said " electric cars are great because although they cost a lot more to buy, they are then free to run because you don't need petrol, you just plug them in"

To be honest it was more than possible to charge for free, a lot of places had free slow charging.
As uptake was low and with electric then was cheap it was like advertising give away 7kwh of electric in a 1hour stay just over a £1 then, to get a visitor in your pub where they likely spent 10x that, same for supermarkets, you spend £100 in store, in your hour long visit. . .

https://www.zap-map.com/ev-guides/free-ev-charging-points-where-are-they

Highland Mule · Aug 19, 2023

Dave645 said:
To be honest it was more than possible to charge for free, a lot of places had free slow charging.
As uptake was low and with electric then was cheap it was like advertising give away 7kwh of electric in a 1hour stay just over a £1 then, to get a visitor in your pub where they likely spent 10x that, same for supermarkets, you spend £100 in store, in your hour long visit. . .

And plenty still will have domestic solar with presumed export, so giving free charging at home whenever the sun shines.

Lazy Sod · Aug 19, 2023

My daughter is an independant contractor working in television production. She frequently works at IMG Studios, near Uxbridge. When she is there, she can charge her BMW iX3 for nothing. She told me that as electric cars are becoming more popular, it's now becoming harder to find a space at the chargers.

Funny Farmer · Aug 19, 2023

Highland Mule said:
And plenty still will have domestic solar with presumed export, so giving free charging at home whenever the sun shines.

In reality only a tiny proportion will have access to free solar and in any case most want to use their cars during the day and charge them at night. BTW, I have a 4 year old diesel car that driven with care can top 70MPG and is worth maybe £14k. What possible economic argument could there be for me buying an electric car?

Funny Farmer · Aug 19, 2023

Dave645 said:
https://www.nowthenenergy.co.uk/news/diesel-gen-or-grid
So about 49p/kwh for a gen.
So at upto 5 miles per kWh (Tesla) around 10p/ mile.
The ice car at the same cost per mile, would have to do 68 miles per gallon. At £1.50/ liter.
If the EV does 4 miles per kWh.
Then the ice car would have to do 55 miles per gallon.

throw in savings on service, road tax, tax incentives, the fact you can charge the EV from solar or night rate electric, for as low as 18p/kwh in the uk.
Would mean the ice car would have to do 151 miles per gallon to be as good as an EV doing 4 miles per kWh.
But a Tesla doing 5miles per kWh that jumps to 189 miles per gallon for the ice car. For an EV charged on night rate electric even now in the uk.

Some of the figures banded about seem nonsensical, for example

"The Model 3 uses an average of 290 watts to drive 1 mile. Therefore 1000watts/290watts=3.4 miles per kWh."

I personally have to put out around 90/100W of effort to propel my 9kg push bike at 15MPH so can't see how 290w which is isn't even 1/2 a horsepower is possible.

Highland Mule · Aug 19, 2023

Funny Farmer said:
Some of the figures banded about seem nonsensical, for example

"The Model 3 uses an average of 290 watts to drive 1 mile. Therefore 1000watts/290watts=3.4 miles per kWh."

I personally have to put out around 90/100W of effort to propel my 9kg push bike at 15MPH so can't see how 290w which is isn't even 1/2 a horsepower is possible.

290 Watt-hours. The misuse of units is rife in this thread and elsewhere.

steveR · Aug 19, 2023

Funny Farmer said:
In reality only a tiny proportion will have access to free solar and in any case most want to use their cars during the day and charge them at night. BTW, I have a 4 year old diesel car that driven with care can top 70MPG and is worth maybe £14k. What possible economic argument could there be for me buying an electric car?

A daily commute to a big city with a ULEZ, bit other than that....

Although at 4yo, yours is probably OK??

Clive · Aug 19, 2023

bit of a myth busting video here

Courier · Aug 20, 2023

Pie face said:
Did anyone see Edwina Curry being interviewed a few weeks back on TV. She was extolling the benifits of her now 2nd electric car. She said " electric cars are great because although they cost a lot more to buy, they are then free to run because you don't need petrol, you just plug them in"

And that from someone who could have been considered for chancellor at some stage ….

Clive · Aug 20, 2023

3 key points from the myth busting video

1) seems the stats are the average tesla battery looses 10% capacity buy 200,000 miles use this could be bettered if you didn’t use superchargers and stayed 20-80% but realistically the rest of the car will probably be worn out before batteries are degraded enough to be useless - the average ICE engine apparently is good for 180,000 miles

2) batteries are recyclable, we do not need a infinite supply of materials to keep making them

3) people who claim to know most about ev’s are people who don’t have experience of them

Dave645 · Aug 20, 2023

Funny Farmer said:
Some of the figures banded about seem nonsensical, for example

"The Model 3 uses an average of 290 watts to drive 1 mile. Therefore 1000watts/290watts=3.4 miles per kWh."

I personally have to put out around 90/100W of effort to propel my 9kg push bike at 15MPH so can't see how 290w which is isn't even 1/2 a horsepower is possible.

It’s as low as 200wh per mile average, it’s all about air drag and average, your also missing regen, because they mostly don’t use brakes, they actually recover energy used when slowing so on average in towns especially 200-250 wh is the average. Regen is what you're missing from your calc, they recover energy to reuse again in the motors.

Ice cars waste most of their energy in heat brakes and engine. The EV loses far less to heat nearly zero to brakes and not much in the motors and battery packs, but they also recycle that heat where possible using motor/inverter heat to warm the battery pack to condition it, and the cab if required.
Do a little research you will see.

Courier · Aug 20, 2023

From junction 28 on the M62 travelling to Elland road I find that my daughters Zoe regens 4 miles worth of charge

Electric vehicles will cost more to run than petrol vehicles after October

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