Best tup in your breed
- Thread starter Ysgythan
- Start date
Yes. Unlike East Middle Weansland of whatever he was called…Nah, hump in his back, and too straight on the hind legs. Milton of North Sir Allen, saw him out of his wool at the AI center, length, level great hams, and he could walk, unlike most. terrible figures though
- Location
- Montgomeryshire
Which is just bollox when the supposed cost advantage would be so different under every system. A fortnight earlier sold in May is very different to a fortnight in October, as an example.
- Location
- East Sussex
In our Romney flock the issue 20 years ago were small and fat lambs so once we switched to recorded tups of NZ origin we made sure we went for high growth rate and lean, plus prolificacy.
Well the high growth worked perfectly and you could argue that so did the high lean index but we quickly stopped that route as we ended up with lots of 50 kg plus hoggets that wouldn't finish.
Prolificacy increased more by only using twin replacement all the time than genetics.
The game changer then was to concentrate on more fat cover and eye muscle size which has improved the carcass hugely.
We have been lucky with the Romney in that the ease of lambing has never been an issue.
That’s fine but there’s two issues even with trait focussed selection through EBVs. Not every trait which makes a difference to profitability is measured, and you can’t just move one or two traits. If you do move a trait the others move whether you like it or not.
- Location
- East Sussex
There is also the origin of the traits. For those outside of the pedigree breeding and pure commercial tup breeding then genetics from outside can give some degree of hybrid vigour which can make significant gains in a shorter time.
- Location
- Mendips Somerset
exactly , law of unintended consequences ! Thats why simply using an overall index is misleading at best , of course individual indexes mean more work for the recorder and doesn't fit with the easy marketing strategy of the big players .
Fascinating that the Texel is now following the Romney model you describe, all growth, the need for muscling basically thrown away, a recipe for large lean lambs that won't finish, but you try telling folk that a lamb sold in market has the same ultimate destination as one sold dead, they all end up on a hook. Also try telling a heavy feeding ram breeder that , that system is not particularly profitable for prime lamb production.
sheepwise
Member
- Location
- SW Scotland
Had the pleasure of shearing him a few times. At the time he was born there was very little ET work done and he was a natural triplet lamb himself. When John Forsyth bought him for the then record price of 33,000gns at Lanark he got to know that his triplet brother was going to Carlisle the following week. So he went and bought him too at around 4000gns but don’t think he ever actually used him much. The result was anyone wanting lambs off that line in the next couple of years had to buy out his pen and it certainly worked for him especially since Blondin proved to be a great breeder.
sheepwise
Member
- Location
- SW Scotland
This is the whole problem. There’s no overall index with cattle so maybe they think sheep breeders are too stupid to analyse the numbers themselves.
- Location
- Essex
What you say is true, but farmers keep buying rams from the trough feeders, otherwise they wouldn't be in business.
Who's conning who?
I once saw a young fella stand bottom of his class with what I thought was a decent commercial tup. Later walking the alleys I overheard him questioning one of the top men in his breed , " Should I change my breeding ? Buy a bigger tup ? What ? " Nay lad , came the answer , buy thissen a bigger bucket ! I walked on by.
Yes, but he’s wanting to make a profit himself, and there’s no doubt what sells.
I suppose what I'm really getting at, is that it's a shame that more attention isn't given too breeding (for example ) a good genetic loin, rather than just making it look like it's got one, but if the buyer is that stupid so be it.
- Location
- Montgomeryshire
I guess that depends on whether you’re looking for a profit this year, or repeat buyers to keep that business ongoing?
I guess with auction selling then there’s always another mug coming along to replace each disappointed customer, so it carries on?
I don’t disagree
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From: Department for Environment, Food & Rural Affairs and The Rt Hon Sir Mark Spencer MP Published21 May 2024
Full details of the expanded and improved Sustainable Farming Incentive (SFI) offer available to farmers from July have been published by the...