The war in Ukraine...

renewablejohn

Member
Location
lancs


Think you will find there was no helicopter on board instead the helipad had an air defense system attached to it as part of the Kerch bridge defence system.
 
For once I can truly say I am in agreement with President Macron.

Western troops should be invading Ukraine to expel the Russian invaders. A combined coalition with all of Europe, Poland and the Estonia would be enough to kick them out, whether the US overtly helped or not. Western forces are already there. We should have kicked Putin so hard he wouldn't dare do it again.
 

fudge

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire.
For once I can truly say I am in agreement with President Macron.

Western troops should be invading Ukraine to expel the Russian invaders. A combined coalition with all of Europe, Poland and the Estonia would be enough to kick them out, whether the US overtly helped or not. Western forces are already there. We should have kicked Putin so hard he wouldn't dare do it again.
That’s an interesting reading of Macron’s statements. Call me a conspiracy theorist but it seems to me a public attempt to convince Zelensky that the cavalry are not coming. There’s no European consensus on that let alone in the USA. Maybe Macron thinks Zelensky’s least worst option is to try for a peace deal before the US presidential election?
 

farmerm

Member
Location
Shropshire
For once I can truly say I am in agreement with President Macron.

Western troops should be invading Ukraine to expel the Russian invaders. A combined coalition with all of Europe, Poland and the Estonia would be enough to kick them out, whether the US overtly helped or not. Western forces are already there. We should have kicked Putin so hard he wouldn't dare do it again.
I would be a bit happier about that idea if our nuclear deterrent test launch hadn't flopped into the sea last week....:X3: The issue with direct involvement is the coalition forces would inevitably take tens of thousands of casualties and whilst most wise Europeans do not want to see russia advance in Ukraine I am not sure we are ready to commit such a great price to being inflicted on our military personnel. Also putin is now so committed to the land that has been stolen, that russians are now so indoctrinated to believe that these are russian lands, that they are russian motherland, the prospect of russia resorting to tactical nuclear weapons in such a scenario has become dangerously high. Once that genie is out the bottle there is a very high risk of European military and civilian losses escalating from tens of thousands to tens or hundreds of millions. Sure russia will take many casualties too but it is clear putin's russians will accept vast casualties as a worthwhile price for russian "greatness". Even if a European coalition inflict 10 to 1 casualties against russia it will not feel like a win and Western leaders are in no rush to suffer that legacy. All that said, I think given russia's clear intentions, such an encounter will happen when russia makes its next territorial move or two. I fear that in hindsight you will be proven right, a terrible high price paid now might well be cheaper than an even greater price paid later.
 

czechmate

Member
Mixed Farmer
That’s an interesting reading of Macron’s statements. Call me a conspiracy theorist but it seems to me a public attempt to convince Zelensky that the cavalry are not coming. There’s no European consensus on that let alone in the USA. Maybe Macron thinks Zelensky’s least worst option is to try for a peace deal before the US presidential election?

You guys who think Zelensky has a choice 🤦‍♀️.
If they don’t fight, they are fuc!ed anyway ☹️😡
 

BrianV

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Dartmoor
You won’t be surprised that I think you are very wrong, as I have always thought the Russians will pay any price it takes to get control of the Kherson, Zaporizhzhia, Donetsk & Luhansk regions & they will advance no further, it will then just be an ongoing slaughter on both sides until an agreement is made. There is no real advantage to Russia advancing further Into Ukraine.


1709715555202.jpeg
 

czechmate

Member
Mixed Farmer
You won’t be surprised that I think you are very wrong, as I have always thought the Russians will pay any price it takes to get control of the Kherson, Zaporizhzhia, Donetsk & Luhansk regions & they will advance no further, it will then just be an ongoing slaughter on both sides until an agreement is made. There is no real advantage to Russia advancing further Into Ukraine.


View attachment 1168344

you never answer, but I’ll ask again…
So, why were Russian tanks at the gates of Kiev ?
 

czechmate

Member
Mixed Farmer
If the collective west doesn’t step up and provide proper assistance what choices has Zelenskyy anyway ?
As you say , he couldn't give up but what hope would he have ?

The west have to step up🤷‍♂️
it’s such a shame that it has slipped back for Ukraine because of Trump 😡, but the rest should of been doing more (maybe those in the east who know what they are up against have been doing as much as possible?)
 

linga

Member
Location
Ceredigion
The west have to step up🤷‍♂️
it’s such a shame that it has slipped back for Ukraine because of Trump 😡, but the rest should of been doing more (maybe those in the east who know what they are up against have been doing as much as possible?)
I agree. If USA won’t help then it’s time Europe got itself together and did what it should be doing
 

renewablejohn

Member
Location
lancs
You won’t be surprised that I think you are very wrong, as I have always thought the Russians will pay any price it takes to get control of the Kherson, Zaporizhzhia, Donetsk & Luhansk regions & they will advance no further, it will then just be an ongoing slaughter on both sides until an agreement is made. There is no real advantage to Russia advancing further Into Ukraine.


View attachment 1168344
But even if Putin stopped in Ukraine at Odessa (which he wont) then he will just carry on to Transnistria and Moldova.
 

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