Islam

Lowland1 · Mar 25, 2024

Given that I sense the geenral tenet of TFF contributors is somewhat to the right of liberal (!) and hatred of 'Pikeys' thieving I am surprised there is not more enthusiasm for Sharia Law - after all get those thieving hands chopped off.

But as an interesting observation on Friday evening I attended an evening in our village church which is some 200 metres from where I am typing this. A couple of the active congregation have dived into the Church archive and put on a really interesting display. The building is a mish mash of periods from a bit of late Saxon through to 16C. So a place of worship (Christian) has stood on that site for over a thousand years. And inside is a list of all the incumbent priests since 1100 (Not many actually!) But the Church faces the same issue as many in Lincolnshire. Lack of funds. When the current Vicar retires in the Autumn the Diocese is not providing a replacement for our Village and the associated eight other parishes. And is reducing funding for the upkeep of the building. The building and churchyard are an historic record. Maybe one day we shall hear the call to prayers issued from the Bell Tower? Hey ho.
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There's a religious vacuum. The vast majority of the UK don't believe in much but themselves the Muslims are filling that vacuum they might come from lots of different places but their religion holds them together. It's something we've lost. People talk about British culture someone explain it to me if it's going it's not because of an influx of other religions.

soapsud · Mar 25, 2024

Danllan said:
There is no EU law that has any bearing on it that any longer has effect here. However there is law stemming from the ECHR (not an EU body) and there is, of course, our own Common Law, both of which could be used to oppose such a move.

@ollie989898 was upholding rights,no? He'd most likely support the ECHR. I do too, not for cultural identity issues that protect minorities against perceived values of national group acceptability, but for what the american founding fathers called the tyranny of government.
In what sense?
Because what we were told by the brexit campaign were taken as political manifestos and written declarations of intent that were legally binding. They said "Here are some problems and we have solutions". The UK then discovered that the brexit boys lied about their intentions to improve the political rate of change in the UK, the lack of investment, the loss of heavy industry, our fall out of 1st world status, etc. I see it as part of the liberal agenda. They make promises to all competing factions to quieten their sectarian resolve whilst always failing to deliver on any of them. And I include the tories in that.

That's why I don't want the UK to leave the ECHR. We need an external authority, greater than our own systems - especially when they fail. And they will undoubtedly fail again and fail more often, vis-a-vis Rwanda.

You have faith in our own legal systems to hold our government to account. You're a lawyer so I don't blame you for your faith. I don't. I don't believe in your sovereignty when the rule of law is being undermined by the political establishment (socailising land rights for the masses against the owners and tenants of private property and having control on what will or wont happen with it.

And I'm not an essentialist. I'm a pragmatist - I work with my hands afterall.

Danllan said:
As you write, Parliament can legislate as it wishes because - as things stand - constitutionally it is sovereign. However, I think it almost certain that if a given Parliament sought to do this, the King would dissolve Parliament and force a General Election. If that election then returned a Parliament with the same intent to legislate, it would then be allowed to do so uninterrupted.

Manifestos are policy but the civil servants and NGO backed infrastructure are what put those policies into strategical effect. The tories have failed to oversee this for over 13 years. Labour will be worse.

Danllan said:
But this is all theoretical, it just isn't going to happen without an enormous political shift first, and although such a shift is just about feasible, it is not even on the horizon.

Yep.

oval · Mar 25, 2024

Burrell Road Loco · Mar 25, 2024

oval said:
View attachment 1171737

You must be mistaken, we keep being told that Islam is a nice, gentle religion that is fully modern, so why should we be at all concerned?
Surely people who call out radical Islam are just xenophobic bigots and racists, yep that’s definitely correct.
Move on folks, nothing to see here, keep looking at your phone.
Oh look there’s the next ‘real’ emergency, a tabby cat walked across the road so the sky must be falling on our heads.

Note for the morons, this is called sarcasm.
The opposite is true.

caveman · Mar 25, 2024

And the story of the teacher in Batley who is in hiding for daring to question Islam is returning.

Teacher, 30, still in hiding after showing Prophet Mohammed cartoon

The 30-year-old teacher which showed a cartoon of the Prophet Mohammed at Batley Grammar School is still in hiding and has not returned to work or home.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Danllan · Mar 25, 2024

Lowland1 said:
...There's a religious vacuum. The vast majority of the UK don't believe in much but themselves the Muslims are filling that vacuum they might come from lots of different places but their religion holds them together. It's something we've lost. People talk about British culture someone explain it to me if it's going it's not because of an influx of other religions...

What you write of can't have anything to do with the arch-lie of multiculturalism, can it...

We don't need stupid and demonstrably untrue superstitions for national unity; we need governments that promote the UK and actively oppose all the anti-British crap that the wokeists and many foreigners here churn out.

ollie989898 · Mar 25, 2024

Rights regarding freedoms in the UK are enshrined in UK law: they have fudge all to do with the European court of human rights.

You guys seem to be destined to hate someone, it's like you are actually looking for it. You really should find something better to do with your lives.

Lowland1 · Mar 25, 2024

Danllan said:
What you write of can't have anything to do with the arch-lie of multiculturalism, can it... We don't need stupid and demonstrably untrue superstitions for national unity; we need governments that promote the UK and actively oppose all the anti-British crap that the wokeists and many foreigners here churn out.

Like it or not the Christian religion shaped the UK for nearly 2000 years. Whether you believe or not is immaterial however the fact that Christian values has been ignored allows a vacuum for other religions to flourish. Islam is flourishing in the UK because these people feel the majority of the population have low morals. Let’s face it half the threads in the political section here are about corrupt politicians or organizations. Muslims are very good at justifying their actions based on the decadence and immorality of non Muslims. And here’s the rub there’s 5 million of them the vast majority are British citizens and an awful lot will have been in the UK for several generations now. So they aren’t going anywhere.

ollie989898 · Mar 25, 2024

Lowland1 said:
Like it or not the Christian religion shaped the UK for nearly 2000 years. Whether you believe or not is immaterial however the fact that Christian values has been ignored allows a vacuum for other religions to flourish. Islam is flourishing in the UK because these people feel the majority of the population have low morals. Let’s face it half the threads in the political section here are about corrupt politicians or organizations. Muslims are very good at justifying their actions based on the decadence and immorality of non Muslims. And here’s the rub there’s 5 million of them the vast majority are British citizens and an awful lot will have been in the UK for several generations now. So they aren’t going anywhere.

Various countries have had portions of their populations who followed Christianity, Judaism, Islam or other religions and who have lived largely in peace with others often for hundreds of years.

Unfortunately my understanding of history is incomplete but I do know that in the Mughal empire, non-Muslims were protected by law- this was borne out of necessity because large numbers of people who lived in the regions it controlled were either of Persian descent or followed the Hindu faith.

I find it curious now that anyone now would care that any number of Muslims live in the UK. The UK was a maritime power and world trading hub for hundreds of years, people of all kinds of backgrounds fought under the crown in the British army or navy. This is not a new occurrence- the UK has always been multicultural. It's also a bit rich to complain about the popularity of Islam in the UK given that Christianity in the UK seems to be a non-entity these days as Chapels and Churches disappear or become sad empty monuments to a by-gone era. For Christianity to enjoy a resurgence people would actually have to go to Church and get the roof repaired.

Danllan · Mar 25, 2024

Lowland1 said:
Like it or not the Christian religion shaped the UK for nearly 2000 years. Whether you believe or not is immaterial however the fact that Christian values has been ignored allows a vacuum for other religions to flourish. Islam is flourishing in the UK because these people feel the majority of the population have low morals. Let’s face it half the threads in the political section here are about corrupt politicians or organizations. Muslims are very good at justifying their actions based on the decadence and immorality of non Muslims. And here’s the rub there’s 5 million of them the vast majority are British citizens and an awful lot will have been in the UK for several generations now. So they aren’t going anywhere.

The 'Christians' didn't derive the philosophy they espoused, it was plagiarised from Judaism, Buddhism and elsewhere and, anyway, it's merely a common humanism. We don't need the supernatural claptrap to tell us not to kill, steal etc. for no reason, everyone knows this in himself already.

Figures I have heard are <4m Muslims in the UK, an appallingly large number. Unless there is an external pressure to do otherwise, people stay where they believe they can prosper most; they forefathers of the people you mention were elsewhere for many generations before they were here, that would argue that people often do go somewhere else.

Hfd Cattle · Mar 25, 2024

Many Chapels and Churches are disappearing because they have failed to uphold the basic teachings of The New Testament.
The Old Testament is a recording of The Holy Land and the surrounding areas and is basically historical and prophetical . The New Testament teaching is the basis for the Christian faith how a faith in Jesus provides us with a certain hope for the future and a guide for how we should live our lives on earth .
Churches/ groups that uphold this teaching are thriving and growing fast.
In Herefordshire many are 'outgrowing' their premises and need to find bigger buildings to meet in .
......why can't they meet in existing Churches ? .....because the buildings are not fit for modern Church practice .....and the Cof E Church commissioners put too much demands on the possibility of renting these places .

....just my thoughts as I chobhle on my beef sandwich for lunch

Lowland1 · Mar 25, 2024

ollie989898 said:
Various countries have had portions of their populations who followed Christianity, Judaism, Islam or other religions and who have lived largely in peace with others often for hundreds of years.

Unfortunately my understanding of history is incomplete but I do know that in the Mughal empire, non-Muslims were protected by law- this was borne out of necessity because large numbers of people who lived in the regions it controlled were either of Persian descent or followed the Hindu faith.

I find it curious now that anyone now would care that any number of Muslims live in the UK. The UK was a maritime power and world trading hub for hundreds of years, people of all kinds of backgrounds fought under the crown in the British army or navy. This is not a new occurrence- the UK has always been multicultural. It's also a bit rich to complain about the popularity of Islam in the UK given that Christianity in the UK seems to be a non-entity these days as Chapels and Churches disappear or become sad empty monuments to a by-gone era. For Christianity to enjoy a resurgence people would actually have to go to Church and get the roof repaired.

In Sudan there’s a large population of Coptic Christians ( there was a pig farm next to one of the farms we managed ). Our immediate boss was a Coptic Christian woman. Jews were not welcome but that was a recent post 1948 phenomena prior to the rise of Israel Muslims and Jews have coexisted ( probably better than Christians and others ). My Israeli neighbour wanted me to employ his son in Sudan using his German passport but I reckoned it was a good idea. Generally Muslims don’t phase me I’ve found them to be pleasant people however I really hate Somalis they are real nutters. Any country taking them is asking for trouble.

Lowland1 · Mar 25, 2024

Danllan said:
The 'Christians' didn't derive the philosophy they espoused, it was plagiarised from Judaism, Buddhism and elsewhere and, anyway, it's merely a common humanism. We don't need the supernatural claptrap to tell us not to kill, steal etc. for no reason, everyone knows this in himself already.

Figures I have heard are <4m Muslims in the UK, an appallingly large number. Unless there is an external pressure to do otherwise, people stay where they believe they can prosper most; they forefathers of the people you mention were elsewhere for many generations before they were here, that would argue that people often do go somewhere else.

We all know where Christianity comes from. Generally religions work on the same basic premise and yes you do need something to enforce the don’t steal and don’t kill philosophies especially when people didn’t read or write and you want to control them. It’s called ‘The fear of God’
4 million people of the Muslim religion in UK. I’d say that’s small potatoes with regard to the way us British have spread all over the world displaced the native populations and eradicated their cultures.

Danllan · Mar 25, 2024

Lowland1 said:
We all know where Christianity comes from. Generally religions work on the same basic premise and yes you do need something to enforce the don’t steal and don’t kill philosophies especially when people didn’t read or write and you want to control them. It’s called ‘The fear of God’
4 million people of the Muslim religion in UK. I’d say that’s small potatoes with regard to the way us British have spread all over the world displaced the native populations and eradicated their cultures.

Would you steal, kill, rape etc. if it wasn't for 'The fear of God'?

I only ask because I have no such fear of non-existent myths and yet, remarkably, I don't steal, maim, murder etc and feel no desire to.

You are an apologist clutching straws, now trying to throw 'blame' around - daft when discussing and trying to defend Islam of all things. Anyway, the 'culture' in the places these people come from is self-evidently inferior to that here, at least they think so or they wouldn't come here would they?

Bald Rick · Mar 25, 2024

Any religious faith and its teachings can be twisted by its adherents to give them "meaning" for their own ends. The only possible exception may be Jainism

Lowland1 · Mar 25, 2024

Danllan said:
Would you steal, kill, rape etc. if it wasn't for 'The fear of God'?

I only ask because I have no such fear of non-existent myths and yet, remarkably, I don't steal, maim, murder etc and feel no desire to.

You are an apologist clutching straws, now trying to throw 'blame' around - daft when discussing and trying to defend Islam of all things. Anyway, the 'culture' in the places these people come from is self-evidently inferior to that here, at least they think so or they wouldn't come here would they?

It apologizing for anything. I’m a realist. Would I do bad things if I didn’t believe in some form of higher being? Most certainly not but there are plenty throughout history who might would and plenty as of now did bad things in the name of a God.As someone who seems to think the world is in a bit of a mess today surely a return to a time when people had a fear of some form of authority divine or otherwise would be a good think for you.
You need to get a bit of counseling that Priest that bothered you didn’t do it because God told him he did it because he was a Pervert.

Lowland1 · Mar 25, 2024

Bald Rick said:
Any religious faith and its teachings can be twisted by its adherents to give them "meaning" for their own ends. The only possible exception may be Jainism

I’d disagree with that too. You’ve got fundamental Jains too. We are trying to rent a farm from a group of Jains. Obviously raising cattle is out of the question but some say growing onions is ok other are dead against it. You’ve got modern Jains and traditional Jains.

Danllan · Mar 25, 2024

Lowland1 said:
It apologizing for anything. I’m a realist. Would I do bad things if I didn’t believe in some form of higher being? Most certainly not but there are plenty throughout history who might would and plenty as of now did bad things in the name of a God.As someone who seems to think the world is in a bit of a mess today surely a return to a time when people had a fear of some form of authority divine or otherwise would be a good think for you.
You need to get a bit of counseling that Priest that bothered you didn’t do it because God told him he did it because he was a Pervert.

That's your sort, well done, you've reached your best level... and since you can't in any way justify or rationally support your idiotic claims about the supernatural you infer some sort of sexual molestation of me by a priest... really?* (~ that will cue denial and claim misunderstanding now...)

And there's your problem, your stupid religionism is utterly reliant upon the suspension of one's critical faculties, it simply can't stand up to even casual enquiry or criticism - of course it can't, it's all fairy stories and self-contradicting rubbish. Why would your benign 'god' allow sexual molestation, or child cancer etc. etc....?

Back in the real world, I don't want anyone to have a fear of some form of authority, almost the exact opposite is what I want i.e. those in authority not to have fear of, but to respect the general population and its wishes. And that is an entirely reasonable thing and an entirely possible thing; the key to it is a properly accountable democracy.

We don't have that yet, but I think the degree to which the general population is ignored will lead to it occurring, and sooner rather than later. It may be a hard thing to bring about, I hope not, but is so... so be it.

*Following your rather revolting lead, if our positions were reversed I suspect there would be a retort claiming some sort of psychological projection here, perhaps alluding to having actually enjoyed the attentions of said priest... but I do not stoop to that, I suspect your daft 'faith' is entirely down to personal gullibility and lack of intellectual exercise.

Still Farming · Mar 25, 2024

Stacey Dooley article re: hometown fanatics protest march in Luton is truly disturbing.

Lowland1 · Mar 25, 2024

Danllan said:
That's your sort, well done, you've reached your best level... and since you can't in any way justify or rationally support your idiotic claims about the supernatural you infer some sort of sexual molestation of me by a priest... really?* (~ that will cue denial and claim misunderstanding now...)

And there's your problem, your stupid religionism is utterly reliant upon the suspension of one's critical faculties, it simply can't stand up to even casual enquiry or criticism - of course it can't, it's all fairy stories and self-contradicting rubbish. Why would your benign 'god' allow sexual molestation, or child cancer etc. etc....?

Back in the real world, I don't want anyone to have a fear of some form of authority, almost the exact opposite is what I want i.e. those in authority not to have fear of, but to respect the general population and its wishes. And that is an entirely reasonable thing and an entirely possible thing; the key to it is a properly accountable democracy.

We don't have that yet, but I think the degree to which the general population is ignored will lead to it occurring, and sooner rather than later. It may be a hard thing to bring about, I hope not, but is so... so be it.

*Following your rather revolting lead, if our positions were reversed I suspect there would be a retort claiming some sort of psychological projection here, perhaps alluding to having actually enjoyed the attentions of said priest... but I do not stoop to that, I suspect your daft 'faith' is entirely down to personal gullibility and lack of intellectual exercise.

Oh dear have I hurt your feelings. It seems it’s ok for the cleverest man on the forum to have a go at others but it’s nasty when done to him. I always envisage you as the type of person who would run Deepcut Barracks or somewhere similar making the life’s of poor recruits miserable to the point of suicide. You are a racist whether it’s inherent in you or whether it was brought on my what you say happened to your friends/ family in Rhodesia I don’t know or really care. Your rants about Muslims and other non British are based on hatred rather than any understanding yep Muslims can be a nasty bunch due to a lack of real understanding of their own religion , education and breeding but it’s a small proportion and unfortunately people like you are more likely to cause more violence than less. I asked one poster why he didn’t ask for clarification re. what his daughter was being taught but basically he was too frit to ask and that’s the crux of this matter. A complete lack of courage and unwillingness to engage. You can write all kinds of nonsense on this forum but people like you will never have the courage to ask them what they really believe and why they believe it.

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