SFI - What % have or where you going to taking out of production?

Phil P · Mar 25, 2024

Going off the back of the recent news from Defra and reading the current thread about it it would be interesting to see exactly how much land people where actually considering taking out of production.
Thers a lot complaining about not being able to enter more than 25% into the 6 options that have been restricted but how much where you actually going to enter if you haven’t already put an application in?

Also why haven’t you applied yet?

teslacoils · Mar 25, 2024

Applied back in November. Jan 1st start. Just over 50 percent legume fallow to stay in the same spot for the duration. Will replace grass and all my break crops. As an aside, all my previous farm output, bar a small area of barley for malting, went for energy or industrial use.

topground · Mar 25, 2024

No equality in dispute resolution between the parties to the contract.
No measurable outcomes.
No trust in DEFRA ( and that was before today)
Inadequate incentive.
No further engagement once the pilot finishes here.

HarryB97 · Mar 25, 2024

No change here. Already use herbal Leys just increasing the amount, don’t use insecticides and already direct drill. I’m not interested in anything that stops me farming or adds extra hassle, complexity or bs to the job!

Badshot · Mar 25, 2024

Approximately 1/3 into legume fallow, either rotational or semi permanent.
It's entirely replacing break crops, but I should have more tonnes to sell as I'm back into second wheats, so I'm producing more milling wheat than before. Just no linseed, oats, beans, osr.

DrWazzock · Mar 25, 2024

Badshot said:
Approximately 1/3 into legume fallow, either rotational or semi permanent.
It's entirely replacing break crops, but I should have more tonnes to sell as I'm back into second wheats, so I'm producing more milling wheat than before. Just no linseed, oats, beans, osr.

That’s happening quite widely as far as I can see. Break crops are the big loser. Legume fallow and a few other options replace them. Will certainly happen here. No more OSR or beans, just legume fallow unless we up sheep numbers and put in more herbal leys.

Badshot · Mar 26, 2024

DrWazzock said:
That’s happening quite widely as far as I can see. Break crops are the big loser. Legume fallow and a few other options replace them. Will certainly happen here. No more OSR or beans, just legume fallow unless we up sheep numbers and put in more herbal leys.

I'm considering maize instead of second wheat, either grain, or silage.
But this year it's second wheat.

Derrick Hughes · Mar 26, 2024

I wonder if there are any arable farmers in the no section , I'm thinking the payments are totally tilted to the arable sector , apart from the odd herbal ley

Boysground · Mar 26, 2024

0% here. If i take anything out i have to buy more food in to feed the moos. Which will cost me more than anything i would gain. Will probably do some clover in the silage grass and the obvious management options. Fairly sure herbal grazing is a waste of time as it won’t suit my land.

Not signed up yet as i have more important worries

Bg

redsloe · Mar 26, 2024

About 20%. Mainly IGL2. Its on less productive land and some is not suitable for arable crops.
I established SAM3 (herbal ley) on some arable land to compensate for any loss of production from that.

IGL2 isn't really taking land out of production though is it? Planning to cut once and its possible to graze during March if you have sheep.

Hindsight · Mar 26, 2024

redsloe said:
About 20%. Mainly IGL2. Its on less productive land and some is not suitable for arable crops.
I established SAM3 (herbal ley) on some arable land to compensate for any loss of production from that.

IGL2 isn't really taking land out of production though is it? Planning to cut once and its possible to graze during March if you have sheep.

Agree IGL2 is not removing land from production. Defra has left NUM3 yet that is an equivalent 'set aside' option to AHL1, AHL2, AHL3 and IPM2 that are blackballed. Which to me shows just how much understanding Defra have of their scheme and the application at arm level. I assume this is because NUM3 is seen as a different category under 'Soils' and 'Soil Health' yet in practice it can be used same as the other four.

Zippy768 · Mar 26, 2024

Under 20% technically, which is effectively a couple of hectares margins; wet holes and the replacement of break crops.
However year 2 would be nearer 30% as I would have some ahl1 and ahl2, but still the same area out of production as year 1 (breakcrop area).

Also have some grassland winter bird food, but I don't think that is taking that ground out of production. Will still be cut, just not grazed over winter - which it never is anyway

ploughman1963 · Mar 26, 2024

for us - of the options affected - around 1-2% - steep corners/banks, wet holes etc. I understand the outcry at the 'u-turn' because it shows they cant be trusted, but I did wonder how many people were actually going to be affected. Looking at the results above, not that many.

gone up the hill · Mar 26, 2024

ploughman1963 said:
of the options affected - around 1-2% - steep corners/banks, wet holes etc. I understand the outcry at the 'u-turn' because it shows they cant be trusted, but I did wonder how many people were actually going to be affected. Looking at the results above, not that many.

I think you will find a lot more farmers will be affected than they currently realize, not only the % that has changed but the areas you can put into each option, ie for any agreements from today can only for example put strips/ blocks of each parcel into say AHL2 and not the whole parcel from reading what they said yesterday!

We now have a two tier sub system which is totally unjust and unfair!

As for why many have not yet applied, well on livestock farms winter is an exceptionally busy time with yard work/ lambing/ calving etc and many livestock/ mixed farms are still waiting for the 60+ grassland options to be announced that they might be able to apply for ( thou its clear now the payment rates for these will be a complete waste of time ), you would not expect a arable farmer to stop harvest to fill out an SFI application so why would you expect livestock farms to do the same at one of the busiest/ hardest times of year!

ploughman1963 · Mar 26, 2024

gone up the hill said:
I think you will find a lot more farmers will be affected than they currently realize, not only the % that has changed but the areas you can put into each option, ie for any agreements from today can only for example put strips/ blocks of each parcel into say AHL2 and not the whole parcel from reading what they said yesterday!

We now have a two tier sub system which is totally unjust and unfair!

As for why many have not yet applied, well on livestock farms winter is an exceptionally busy time with yard work/ lambing/ calving etc and many livestock/ mixed farms are still waiting for the 60+ grassland options to be announced that they might be able to apply for ( thou its clear now the payment rates for these will be a complete waste of time ), you would not expect a arable farmer to stop harvest to fill out an SFI application so why would you expect livestock farms to do the same at one of the busiest/ hardest times of year!

I take your point - I had missed the significance of the IGL1 and IGL2.

BrianV · Mar 26, 2024

Isn't this the truth of the UK also, start a war with China & there will be no shortage of Australian & New Zealand products going cheap looking for a home!

The EU establishment is attempting to dismantle the Common Agriculture Policy (CAP), which has been the cornerstone of European food security for over 60 years, warns Polish MEP Jacek Saryusz-Wolski
March 26, 2024
eurocrats-want-to-dismantle-eus-agricultural-market-and-shift-food-production-to-ukraine-and-south-america-warns-senior-polish-conservative-mep

Derrick Hughes · Mar 26, 2024

The truth for livestock farmers
Not only is the scheme tilted toward arable farmers, straw and feed barley prices can only go one way , its lose lose

BrianV · Mar 26, 2024

gone up the hill said:
I think you will find a lot more farmers will be affected than they currently realize, not only the % that has changed but the areas you can put into each option, ie for any agreements from today can only for example put strips/ blocks of each parcel into say AHL2 and not the whole parcel from reading what they said yesterday!

We now have a two tier sub system which is totally unjust and unfair!

As for why many have not yet applied, well on livestock farms winter is an exceptionally busy time with yard work/ lambing/ calving etc and many livestock/ mixed farms are still waiting for the 60+ grassland options to be announced that they might be able to apply for ( thou its clear now the payment rates for these will be a complete waste of time ), you would not expect a arable farmer to stop harvest to fill out an SFI application so why would you expect livestock farms to do the same at one of the busiest/ hardest times of year!

To be honest we livestock farmers would be better off sticking all grassland in SFI herbal leys scatter some seed around when the field is bare & keep the proof that we have planted it, we can argue about the amount of herbs surviving with Defra later but we should probably do it before all the money runs out & they change the rules yet again.
They've siphoned off a large proportion of the funds to their chums with large estates & are not too concerned about the rest of us.

Derrick Hughes · Mar 26, 2024

BrianV said:
To be honest we livestock farmers would be better off sticking all grassland in SFI herbal leys scatter some seed around when the field is bare & keep the proof that we have planted it, we can argue about the amount of herbs surviving with Defra later but we should probably do it before all the money runs out & they change the rules yet again.
They've siphoned off a large proportion of the funds to their chums with large estates & are not too concerned about the rest of us.

You can't turn a tap on and off in farming , if ground is committed to feeding his livestock its committed , if he cuts back on his stock what happens then when as you say the money runs out?, you can be damn sure it won't continue, this paying big Arable Men an unlimited amount,

BrianV · Mar 26, 2024

Derrick Hughes said:
You can't turn a tap on and off in farming , if ground is committed to feeding his livestock its committed , if he cuts back on his stock what happens then when as you say the money runs out?, you can be damn sure it won't continue, this paying big Arable Men an unlimited amount,

I'm not talking of ploughing up your grass fields just grazing them real tight or cutting for silage then harrow them hard & scatter herbal seeds & let them compete with the existing grasses, I've seen nothing in the rules so far that says as long as you've planted it & can provide evidence that there has to be a certain percentage of herbs continuing to grow, have you?

SFI - What % have or where you going to taking out of production?

SFI - What % have or where you taking out of production?

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