Vet costs.

Grassman247 · Apr 27, 2024

ollie989898 said:
On balance, do you think your vet spend is 'acceptable' given the condition/health of your cows, your system and your youngstock? Plus/minus calving incidents (outcomes) etc?

I have been on farms where they complain their spend with the vet is massive and yet they don't seem to equate that with hygiene in the parlour, foot bathing or the state of the cubicle house/beds? I mean you can't just do nothing and expect 100% results regardless?

We assisted 9 cows this spring and dealt with an acceptable level of RFM’s. So overall I’m fairly happy. Just wondered how others were getting on in regards a ppl level.

Always looking to improve in every aspect tbh

couple things I have thought about switching from Synulox to combiclav as it’s a cheaper drug.
if we fitted a heat detection system that would certainly save on syncing the heifers and maybe save some drugs on non cycling cows
Certainly doing our own scanning would save money too. I think the amount of cows would justify the initial outlay

Milkcow365 · Apr 27, 2024

0.85ppl but I’ve only youngstock to 1month

frederick · Apr 27, 2024

Grassman247 said:
Just re-visiting this thread

Costs have certainly risen in the last 4 years

my vet spend is 1.38ppl 1100 cows, 7500 litres split block

we never have the vet out for calvings or disasters. 25 milk fevers which we treated ourselves

we fresh check every cow
PD
Small amount of pre movement testing
Vet techs do dis budding

bolus bulling heifers and cows
Vaccinate for
Lepto
Salmonella
IBR
Bravoxin 10
Rispoval 3 for calves

used very little draxxin this spring

have used some parafor which we need to eliminate.

How are others vet costs looking and is there anything others aren’t doing that we could remove

Have thought about buying my own scanner and maybe we do our own disbudding but it’s useful to have done while we are busy calving

Vet techs for disbudding I would regard as contract labour not vet. It's one I do and it just means large batches of calves are all done on time with no hassle on the team.

With ear tags we have eliminated all vet fertility visits apart from a not seen bulling intervention on day 14 of service.

Lepto and salmonella.
Ubrolexin 24 cases per 100.
Engemycin
Betamox
Seal all cows antibiotics about 20% at dry off.

And my only routine visit to create a herd health plan.
That's it

Spend £14679 270 cows 1.9million litres so 0.77ppl.

My disbudding is in that number.

Kiss · Apr 27, 2024

Grassman247 said:
We assisted 9 cows this spring and dealt with an acceptable level of RFM’s. So overall I’m fairly happy. Just wondered how others were getting on in regards a ppl level.

Always looking to improve in every aspect tbh

couple things I have thought about switching from Synulox to combiclav as it’s a cheaper drug.
if we fitted a heat detection system that would certainly save on syncing the heifers and maybe save some drugs on non cycling cows
Certainly doing our own scanning would save money too. I think the amount of cows would justify the initial outlay

How would heat detection system reduce on the drugs for non cyclers? They’re still non cyclers we probably present more to the vet that we did without it but treatment levels about the same (more data)
I agree on the heifer bit makes sense but for me it’s the labour element it’s nice chucking the bulls in to focus on the cows

we’re using Betamox for rfm
0.58ppl do our own disbudding
5/100 mastitis

Grassman247 · Apr 27, 2024

Kiss said:
How would heat detection system reduce on the drugs for non cyclers? They’re still non cyclers we probably present more to the vet that we did without it but treatment levels about the same (more data)
I agree on the heifer bit makes sense but for me it’s the labour element it’s nice chucking the bulls in to focus on the cows

we’re using Betamox for rfm
0.58ppl do our own disbudding
5/100 mastitis

Because only non cycling cows would get presented. Currently we present every cow 28 days after calving.

although the autumn herd achieved a 6 week in calf rate of 80% and out of 600 spring cows checked so far only 6 have required estrumate.

Grassman247 · Apr 27, 2024

frederick said:
Vet techs for disbudding I would regard as contract labour not vet. It's one I do and it just means large batches of calves are all done on time with no hassle on the team.

With ear tags we have eliminated all vet fertility visits apart from a not seen bulling intervention on day 14 of service.

Lepto and salmonella.
Ubrolexin 24 cases per 100.
Engemycin
Betamox
Seal all cows antibiotics about 20% at dry off.

And my only routine visit to create a herd health plan.
That's it

Spend £14679 270 cows 1.9million litres so 0.77ppl.

My disbudding is in that number.

Do you have vet to PD?

no IBR vaccine for cows?

frederick · Apr 27, 2024

Kiss said:
How would heat detection system reduce on the drugs for non cyclers? They’re still non cyclers we probably present more to the vet that we did without it but treatment levels about the same (more data)
I agree on the heifer bit makes sense but for me it’s the labour element it’s nice chucking the bulls in to focus on the cows

we’re using Betamox for rfm
0.58ppl do our own disbudding
5/100 mastitis

A vet sees all not seen bulling. Which includes non cyclers and cows that havent expressed an observed heat. eartags pick up a lot of these.

Eartags also give more confidence that just because she hasnt been seen yet if I give her a bit more time I will see her when she does cycle.

Horn&corn · Apr 27, 2024

0.65ppl including all young stock kept for 12month +
365 day calving interval. V low antibiotics and hardly any preg treatment. Fortnightly vet visit.
surplus bulling hefs for sale.

frederick · Apr 27, 2024

Grassman247 said:
Do you have vet to PD?

no IBR vaccine for cows?

We might pd 15 cows just to check if there has been an odd heat at some point. However I normally do these myself at 4 months or more. If the uterus is over the brim and has weight shes probably in calf.

We make the final pregnancy calls fortnight before drying off and by then you have plenty of data to be accurate.

I really dont think we miss many cows at say day 48 that the vet would pd negative and then jab to give a chance of getting in calf.

My empty cows in dry cow yard are now a thing of the past because the eartags pick up on the cow that may have been pd'd at 42 days but then lost the calf at 100 but the computer still says shes in calf because she had a pd.

We have IBR in the herd but it doesnt present as a problem. I would be very cautious if I had to buy cows.

frederick · Apr 27, 2024

Horn&corn said:
0.65ppl including all young stock kept for 12month +
365 day calving interval. V low antibiotics and hardly any preg treatment. Fortnightly vet visit.
surplus bulling hefs for sale.

Are you all year. 26 vet visits for 0.65ppl is phenomenal.

sidjon · Apr 27, 2024

frederick said:
Vet techs for disbudding I would regard as contract labour not vet. It's one I do and it just means large batches of calves are all done on time with no hassle on the team.

With ear tags we have eliminated all vet fertility visits apart from a not seen bulling intervention on day 14 of service.

Lepto and salmonella.
Ubrolexin 24 cases per 100.
Engemycin
Betamox
Seal all cows antibiotics about 20% at dry off.

And my only routine visit to create a herd health plan.
That's it

Spend £14679 270 cows 1.9million litres so 0.77ppl.

My disbudding is in that number.

You do have vet to knock them out then tech does disbud? Our vets are keen with larger numbers, as tech can do more calves easier, so job is cheaper?

frederick · Apr 27, 2024

sidjon said:
You do have vet to knock them out then tech does disbud? Our vets are keen with larger numbers, as tech can do more calves easier, so job is cheaper?

True but are you getting them in to do a job only they can do. Or are you getting them in to do a job more efficiently.

Foot trimming also needs to be contract labour. You are just freeing up labour to do something else.

Wesley · Apr 27, 2024

frederick said:
True but are you getting them in to do a job only they can do. Or are you getting them in to do a job more efficiently.

Foot trimming also needs to be contract labour. You are just freeing up labour to do something else.

Where do you draw the line with what is a vet cost & what isn’t. Anyone who has a vet to scan cows should that not be included as a vet cost, seeing as you can get independents in? Its starting to become a puff your chest out exercise & meaningless unless you’re only comparing yourself to yourself in previous years.

frederick · Apr 27, 2024

Wesley said:
Where do you draw the line with what is a vet cost & what isn’t. Anyone who has a vet to scan cows should that not be included as a vet cost, seeing as you can get independents in? Its starting to become a puff your chest out exercise & meaningless unless you’re only comparing yourself to yourself in previous years.

Agreed it's probably far more value comparing to previous years.
But if you want to compare between farmers it needs to be on a like for like basis.
So if I'm comparing against somebody that does all their own dehorning it is unfair to add my dehorning cost because I'm just to busy to do it myself.

With us we haven't had a foot trimmer on the farm for 10 years because it's a job we believe we can do better in house.

Vet and med spend should really only be pom medicines and any time that can only be carried out by a vet if you want a cross farm comparison

sidjon · Apr 27, 2024

frederick said:
True but are you getting them in to do a job only they can do. Or are you getting them in to do a job more efficiently.

Foot trimming also needs to be contract labour. You are just freeing up labour to do something else.

Their angle is, total cost lower because of efficiency for disbudding, some of thier clients could be 50 to 100 a month on some of their large herds and think they try and get the job done as part of herd health to reduce vet cost.

More to life · Apr 27, 2024

Vet spend is pretty complicated replacement rate,youngstock ,fertility and cull income all need to be considered.

Grassman247 · Apr 27, 2024

More to life said:
Vet spend is pretty complicated replacement rate,youngstock ,fertility and cull income all need to be considered.

Having done a quick scan online there’s definitely cheaper alternatives to Synulox and ketofen. I think that will be our first change

Farmer Fin · Apr 27, 2024

More to life said:
Vet spend is pretty complicated replacement rate,youngstock ,fertility and cull income all need to be considered.

I think you also have to breakdown the spend. How much is fees vs meds and what are the meds, vaccine or antibiotic etc? Also can be big difference in time to pd cows etc between farms depending on handling set up and staff.

Nathan818 · Apr 27, 2024

Grassman247 said:
Having done a quick scan online there’s definitely cheaper alternatives to Synulox and ketofen. I think that will be our first change

Are you talking about alternatives to ketofen which still contain the same active ingredient, ketoprofen, or alternative cheaper NSAIDs?

pappuller · Apr 27, 2024

0.96ppl but nothing other than adult cows and beef calves, routine weekly vet visits which imho save us alot of money further down the line, vaccinate for bvd,ibr 2x ,lepto and all cows vaccinated with rotavac.

Vet costs.

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Up to 25%

25-50%

50-75%

75-100%

100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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