2 year FBT on 2.3 acres pasture

Jacobus

New Member
We rent a small paddock adjacent to our land from a water utility company. For this year's renewal there are new land agents involved. I thought I had agreed verbally with the agent a rent of £300pa but the FBT has come through for signing with a rent of £500pa on the FBT but the covering letter asks for £300 cheque for the next year's rent.

I have now received a letter from the secretary at the land agents saying sorry but there's a typo in the letter and the rent required is £500. Obviously I think the typo is in the FBT not the letter but before getting on the phone I wondered what would people think would be a reasonable rent.

Because of the landlord being what they are there are various restrictions. The land is permanent pasture and must remain as such. We are not allowed to use any chemicals at all or spread any fertiliser. Because there is a lot of pipework under the land we have to allow access to their engineers. On the plus side we get free water.
 

Formatted

Member
Location
Sussex
Whats it worth to you? Seems like a lot of rent for a lot of hassle. Assume you've got land elsewhere so you can include this as part of a BPS application?
 

Jacobus

New Member
We first took it on about 18 years ago and I think the rent was £150 a year. We own 15 acres and used to rent another 18 acres a couple of miles away and lambed 50ish ewes. We have cut back to 15 or so ewes now and tend to keep on most of the ewe lambs to sell as shearlings.
Having a couple of acres extra where we can just let sheep in by opening a gate is very handy!
 

JP1

Moderator
A friend on here and FB spotted a local FB Group with someone wanting some sheep to graze a few acres

I messaged and said I may be able to help

I got this back:

"Hi jeremy We have approx 4 acres, some fenced, some unfenced, no mains water, but we have a bowser and we use IBC tanks, looking for a nominal payment of £10 per week per acre, or £15 with water. "

I thought discretion was the better part of valour and didn't respond
 
Last edited:
We first took it on about 18 years ago and I think the rent was £150 a year. We own 15 acres and used to rent another 18 acres a couple of miles away and lambed 50ish ewes. We have cut back to 15 or so ewes now and tend to keep on most of the ewe lambs to sell as shearlings.
Having a couple of acres extra where we can just let sheep in by opening a gate is very handy!
No, forget it. Offer them £300 if you think it's worth that (but it's not). If not, spend the £500 on putting up a few more fences around your own place instead.
 

Ukjay

Member
A friend on here and FB spotted a local FB Group with someone wanting some sheep to graze a few acres

I messaged and said I may be able to help

I got this back:

"Hi jeremy We have approx 4 acres, some fenced, some unfenced, no mains water, but we have a bowser and we use IBC tanks, looking for a nominal payment of £10 per week per acre, or £15 with water. "

I thought discretion was the better part of valour and didn't respond
Unfortunately I can understand why people would try and charge these rates to farmers, but we personally didn't charge anything for a local farmer to graze our paddocks in the last property.

It was doing us a favour really, as I never had to mow the paddocks, and it also helped with parasite control for the horses.
Only clause was they signed a document stating they have no legal claim to anything, they must remove animals for certain periods and must not allow excessive poaching to the land.
Bloody no brainer to me now, but sometimes I do question why we are not following the rest and charge for things more 🤔
 

Goweresque

Member
Location
North Wilts
Its the difference between the market for paddocks for horses and the market for agricultural land. 2 and half acres is sufficient for 2 horses with sensible grass management, and as such a horse owner will happily pay £40/month per horse, especially with free water thrown in. So £500 for the entire year would be dirt cheap to them.
 

Ukjay

Member
Its the difference between the market for paddocks for horses and the market for agricultural land. 2 and half acres is sufficient for 2 horses with sensible grass management, and as such a horse owner will happily pay £40/month per horse, especially with free water thrown in. So £500 for the entire year would be dirt cheap to them.
Some of the horse folks we come across wouldn't agree with you, they'd want stables thrown in for that.
I've found they're just as tight, if not more so than farmers 😊
 

delilah

Member
We've a dozen or so bits of land as described, don't pay rent on any of it, any of our landlords asks for rent and we say "ask again and we will send you an invoice for keeping your grass down".
The only reason I would take that land would be if the water is unmetered and you could pipe it to the home farm to save on the water bill.
 
It’s worth £100 total rental......you must want it badly at £300, the landlord wants it back in hand at £500...the agent has been having a laugh at £300.
But you must know something we don’t.... Look to your other neighbours and offer them similar money.
 

Dry Rot

Member
From college I remember this from valuation: "Value is that price agreed between a willing buyer and a willing seller". The paddock is worth to you what you are willing to pay for it, so apparently £300. If the seller wants more, walk away.

But I'd suggest you first explain to them, quietly and sweetly, that you've leased the land for a reasonable sum all these years and it has been a trouble free and convenient arrangement for both parties. If they get a bad tenant, how much will their lawyers charge for even looking at their problem? Certainly more than £300! And they will still be stuck with the bad tenant.

My guess would be that the agent has a fixed sum in mind for such small areas of ground from renting, as others have said, for horse lets. That will include his own fee, the lawyer's fee, and a return to the owners for management. If so, they will know all about the hassle that comes with these small items. Suggest they let things lie under the existing verbal agreement and be grateful for small mercies!
 

Jacobus

New Member
Last night I checked back in the records. When we first took it on it was on a 1 year FBT at a rent of £120. When it changed to a 2 year FBT the rent went up to £260 for the two years. Subsequently the rent went up again to £300 for two years. Then there was a change to another agent and the rent stayed the same but 5 years ago the land seemed to become invisible to the last agent and we occupied it for 4 years without an FBT and without paying rent!
Now, the agent before last has taken over the land portfolio again and contacted us. The agent I spoke to was not bothered about the previous agent's error and offered us a new 2 year FBT at £300. That's the figure I noted on my pad during the telephone conversation and so it seems the firms administration has made two errors, first they have shown £500 on the FBT instead of £300 and secondly the administrator has asked for a cheque for the whole 2 year rent, which is the way it was paid in the past, but described it as the 'first year's' rent.
With luck a phone call will get it sorted.
I know even at this level the rent is probably above market rate but they know it's worth more to us as it means we occupy all the land bounded by the village's back gardens, the water company's pumping station, a lane and a railway. The other advantage I didn't mention was that we don't have anyone else's stock the other side of the fence.
 

Goweresque

Member
Location
North Wilts
Some of the horse folks we come across wouldn't agree with you, they'd want stables thrown in for that.
I've found they're just as tight, if not more so than farmers 😊
I've never had a problem finding people round here prepared to pay that rate for grazing only. Indeed I've never had anyone say 'I'm not paying that!' Could be down to the area of course, I'm close to a big town so demand for horse paddocks is pretty strong.
 

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94: Advice around establishing herbal leys

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94: Advice around establishing herbal leys

Written by AHDB

In this episode, Danny Fanning, a Masters student from University College Dublin spent a two month placement at AHDB looking at Herbal Leys. During this time he spoke to Ian Wilkinson of Costwolds seeds about his farming practices and how he manages his herbal lays.

* Please note this episode was filmed outside, so in parts it can be...
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