2018 , the year UK ag changed .

[Properjob]

You are right about cows producing carbon on forage but not total carbon emissions.

Growing grass captures carbon through photosynthesis. This ends up in the soil as organic matter (either through root growth or cows eating and shitting.

Moving soil, or bare soil produces carbon - burning diesel and laying concrete also do.

Bare soil over ay sort of wet period will produce run off - a poorly tillered arable crop will do so (although a slightly poached but not destroyed soil from grazing brassicas won't as much, oddly.) so growing anything other than a perennial crop is potentially producing carbon - before you play with the soil, this is made worse by the fact that cows shitting on concrete is actually more harmful in terms of emissions than on soil, where microbial action is much quicker.

Cows are healthier fed grass, rather than high loadings of grain which is effectively what whole crop and maize are. They are not well suited to walking on hard surfaces either, but they are quite capable of weathering bad weather outside.

I house cows for some periods but only because i do not have suitable farm infrastructure to access some areas and some of the farm is heavy clay in places. I can graze a fair proportion of the farm thought winter and didn't house any cattle in 2016/17, grazing right through. A university is measuring water quality of the river going in and out of the farm and the water is actually cleaner leaving than entering. This is in part due to a fair amount of maize being grown further up the catchment, something which the EA is less than happy about, especially when they umbilical slurry on it on the 1st of Feb, rain or not.

NZ is having problems in part because they have lost their way with high payouts. The systems being run in the 90s were much more interesting and progressive IMO

Then you are obviously not running an intensive NZ grazing system, which was my original point! NZ system is intensive grazing/over stocking with little regard to the environment or animal welfare. Plenty of great examples of milk from grass in Cornwall, but not the NZ way. Those that practice this are now in the sh!t, no soil structure, no grass, no alternative feed and as farmers that choose to make profit from stock then there is a duty of care to look after animal welfare, for example provide feed!

 

[Kiwi Pete]

In my opinion almost certainly , livestock men will be hit hard by the fodder shortage , we've been lucky to have unlimited access to grass for nearly 30 years but now the situation has changed ....

Maybe.
A shower of rain and change can go fish?

NZ is having problems in part because they have lost their way with high payouts. The systems being run in the 90s were much more interesting and progressive IMO

Nail on the head.

Walter will be pleased to note "Greed Defies Logic" here too.

Simply there are dairy cattle on land that simply cannot support dairy cattle, and it shows - I am reluctant to have 550kg cattle outside on my land because I care about my land.
My neighbour is happy to have 650kg dairy cows out because he cares about his money.
Small wonder then that we make better profit/acre off a few cattle and lambs than he does, because money/debt has prevented him reading his landscape.

However, there is a massive interest in regenerative agriculture locally as a result, mention these words and people come in droves - I have a little bit of insider knowledge on this one

Hopefully, it's a new beginning, because it's not sustainable to carry on hoping for kind weather and things to improve because they did. It's time to smell the coffee.

 

[wasted years]

Neighbour has just put 60 acre of wheat in the clamp and his winter beans have died .

Are you writing a country and western song?

 

[d williams]

Carmarthen cull ring was busier than ever today, with a queue at the loading bays (as, they say, there are queues to book cattle into abattoirs) as dairy farmers shed passengers. Trade unexciting but where it's been, really, for quite some time.

Not many cattle in the store (c.150) and trade has fallen back around £75/head for anything except quality short keep animals.

It wasn't a cow sale today but one pair was entered - a young and quality black Hereford cross with a lovely Limousin bull calf about 3 months old - normally worth c £1,100 but fetched £950. Sold.

Wholecrop oats is worth c. £300/acre, wholecrop barley £400/acre.

It is, as Caveman says, too expensive to feed to suckler cows - Julie has decided to sell it, reduce cow numbers, and go on holiday instead. It is just too risky to bank on a dry harvest - what'll happen is it'll tip down all thru' the Autumn, the oats will lodge, and grass will then (I like irony) grow like Hell thru' it.

That barley and oats is very cheep at those prices?

 

[DRC]

That barley and oats is very cheep at those prices?

I believe his crops are grown in an environmental scheme and are spring sown.

 

[d williams]

I believe his crops are grown in an environmental scheme and are spring sown.

Even so where he farms food is pretty desperate and worth more then that if there's a crop there
Any rape germinated? Bare stubble here 3 week only muck spread don't know weather it's worth risking the seed

 

[DRC]

Even so where he farms food is pretty desperate and worth more then that if there's a crop there
Any rape germinated? Bare stubble here 3 week only muck spread don't know weather it's worth risking the seed

No nothing unfortunately . I thought that 7mm we had would start them off. Did 25 acres. The rest is staying in the bag at the moment .

 

[Bossfarmer]

@Walterp
Whole crop far too good for suck cows.
Harvest the oats. Feed the straw to the cows and creep your calves on the grain. That will have the effect of the calves not drawing on the cows so heavily as well.
Then grass the the arable land and ditch the metal and squirt in the job.

creep calves with oats? rolled or whole? ive never grown oats but considering it

 

[caveman]

Many on here have quoted in other threads that they feed them whole with good results.

creep calves with oats? rolled or whole? ive never grown oats but considering it

 

[Bossfarmer]

Many on here have quoted in other threads that they feed them whole with good results.

seems an easy system mine currently get an expensive starter protein mix then onto straight barley which has to be bruised

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Hay Kindly supplied by a TFF member .
All our forage will go to help out local farms
We dont supply power stations and export will be stopped while our own local farmers need it

 

[caveman]

seems an easy system mine currently get an expensive starter protein mix then onto straight barley which has to be bruised

http://farmingforum.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?4131-Creep-feeding-whole-oats-to-suckled-calvesM


That link should get me banned from TFF. lol

 

[Bossfarmer]

Cheap farming never works longterm. NZ system is not sustainable from a soil management point of view, doesn't work in wet winters nor dry summers. Nor is it good for the environment or cows, NZ now has massive pollution problems as a result of the Fonterra gold rush. The same cannot be said for western European countries such as Holland/Denmark etc.... Chase the quick buck and the countryside/environment pays the price. Most well run/managed Dairy units will survive the dry weather, most grow some maize, have ability to source wholecrop, buy in straw etc. Know of several large units that carry a good 18 months worth of feed, mainly fully housed systems I admit.

@Kiwi Pete @Farmer Roy

 

[Bossfarmer]

Doesn't work there anymore, they are far behind the times with respect to animal welfare and environment.

https://www.economist.com/asia/2017/11/16/dairy-farming-is-polluting-new-zealands-water

@Kiwi Pete

 

[Agrispeed]

@Kiwi Pete @Farmer Roy

Out of interest Boss, whats your COP and carbon figures?

How much grain do you feed animals to finish?

 

[bobk]

Hay Kindly supplied by a TFF member .
All our forage will go to help out local farms
We dont supply power stations and export will be stopped while our own local farmers need it View attachment 695694

Did you give it to them ?

 

[caveman]

https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/creep-feeding-weaning-calves-advice.10596/


@Bossfarmer

 

[Kiwi Pete]

@Kiwi Pete

Sorry @Bossfarmer I have you on "ignore" because I get heartily sick of all these "but what about my subsidy" threads you start.
(Nothing personal, mind, you are a great advocate )

But, pollution due to completely unsustainable production methods IS a massive problem here now: dairy cattle where no dairy cattle should ever be, poorly managed outwintering performed mostly by "progressive" redmeat farmers with little firsthand experience of outwintering large herds of cattle.. nitrates in waterways because of reliance on urea to allow overstocking.. recreational cultivation.. ryegrass blindness..

It really is as Agrispeed said, the damage done as the result of a few good payout years and some widespread belief it is better to squander profit than pay tax.
MANY NZ dairy farmers, but not all, have looked to the european model of raising output beyond sustainable levels - luckily, in many ways the cracks in this model are much more apparent here due to a less forgiving climate than Europe, on average.

I am bound by confidentiality but I am working on the solution - not easily achieved with so much borrowed money invested in infrastructure - towards a much better future for NZ dairy.
I've spoken to two groups of several hundred farmers on ways to reduce environmental impact through better resource planning and better grazing, and reducing reliance on fert and cultivation to plaster over the cracks of a busted model.

Ironic, that NZ dairy looked to Europe for inspiration when lower COP was something we already had - just greed, pure greed.
No logic in greed in my opinion the co-ops and gov't both dropped a massive catch by not persuing a "100% grassfed dairy nutrition" label, instead shouldering massive and unwise expansion.
There is nothing "friendly" about feeding our ruminants concentrates, despite popular opinion from those who rely on it.
There is a place for sheep and beef, a place for tulip bulbs, a place for cereals, and a place for dairy.

And as I said earlier, it's time to work it out!

Clock is always moving forwards, and I intend to be part of the solution, not the problem, we are already carbon positive on our farm

 

[thesilentone]

Two ways at looking at dry weather, here is another view point:

https://dms.licdn.com/playback/C4D0...t=JIDuZpSqYLAY3zPHrogePni_bjlil6y5kK9poV9Tkng

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Did you give it to them ?

No .but i could sit it .theres a lot of broody hens about .i hope their eggs are fertile