3 Machinery Farm Deaths in 3 Weeks

[ollandroverman]

Multiple tasks, but not by the same person, that's my point.
Building sites have ppl who lay bricks, different guy does the plaster work, different guy does the electrics, different guy drives the forklift.
All pass tests for their different jobs and can not do the other jobs as not qualified.

Not true.
That is only the case on the largest building sites.

 

[Vader]

Not true.
That is only the case on the largest building sites.

I know house builders.
Each trade does their bit and goes.
I guy does not do all the trade jobs

 

[thesilentone]

I know house builders.
Each trade does their bit and goes.
I guy does not do all the trade jobs

We were talking about a construction site, not a house builder, and multiple people working at the same time, which of course could be the case on a house building site.
On a 'safe site ' everyone has to be competent to carry out the tasks and jobs they do. However, that is not to say that person does not have multiple competencies, which would have to be the case for most farmers.
The real point is, if we were to ensure every task and job we do, that a full risk assessment has been carried out, all equipment has been recently inspected and we are familiar with the risks we are likely to encounter and mitigation has been taken, we'd get nothing done.
The reality is, the above should be the case for most jobs we do, but we have neither the resources or profitability to be belt and braces in every case, so accidents happen, sadly some of these are fatal.

 

[ollandroverman]

I know house builders.
Each trade does their bit and goes.
I guy does not do all the trade jobs

So, you know a builder and that makes you qualified to pass judgement on a whole diverse industry?
I am a house builder, groundworker, and railway engineer.
As well as a farmer

 

[Goweresque]

Construction - FAQ's about Banksmen and Signallers

The Health and Safety Executive's (HSE) information and advice for frequently asked questions about banksmen and signallers

www.hse.gov.uk

Look at the second point - banksmen are a LAST resort. Fit mirrors, fit cameras, keep people away.

Biggest killer is transport so if a worker truly is 'lone' then there is no one to run over. Usually people are run over because of poor visibility because there's poor lighting, missing mirrors, broken or worn wipers, defective brakes, blind spots not addressed on the vehicle, windows caked in dust and not washed, blind corners without mirrors so drivers can see pedestrians. There is no farm that is so unprofitable that any of those can't be addressed.

People not following clearly signed paths and ignoring signs is a different matter and that can and does happen in other businesses. It not a 'right' to mow people down who shouldn't be there but its how its managed.

Don't forget construction has the right to exclude the public from its construction sites......how about farmers get the same right to exclude the public from their farms? A proportion of all deaths attributed to agriculture are walkers who are not actually involved in the industry at all.

 

[Vader]

So, you know a builder and that makes you qualified to pass judgement on a whole diverse industry?
I am a house builder, groundworker, and railway engineer.
As well as a farmer

And you do all those jobs on 1 site do you..?

 

[Vader]

We were talking about a construction site, not a house builder, and multiple people working at the same time, which of course could be the case on a house building site.
On a 'safe site ' everyone has to be competent to carry out the tasks and jobs they do. However, that is not to say that person does not have multiple competencies, which would have to be the case for most farmers.
The real point is, if we were to ensure every task and job we do, that a full risk assessment has been carried out, all equipment has been recently inspected and we are familiar with the risks we are likely to encounter and mitigation has been taken, we'd get nothing done.
The reality is, the above should be the case for most jobs we do, but we have neither the resources or profitability to be belt and braces in every case, so accidents happen, sadly some of these are fatal.

That's the point I am making as well.
Most farms dont have multiple workers doing various jobs at the same time.

Its 1 farmer doing all the jobs. And most the jobs involve nasty machines or live creatures. So farmers get more deaths as its simply a more risky job. But we accept it.
Repairs of buildings especially is dangerous as you can not justify the costs of scaffolding etc to fix a broken roof sheet for example. So you use the teleporter.

 

[ollandroverman]

And you do all those jobs on 1 site do you..?

Hmm. Childish retort.

 

[Interested in farming]

Don't forget construction has the right to exclude the public from its construction sites......how about farmers get the same right to exclude the public from their farms? A proportion of all deaths attributed to agriculture are walkers who are not actually involved in the industry at all.

I've said on numerous times I not opposed to farmers lobbying to change the law.
Still people are killed on construction sites and the vast majority killed on farms are people employed there and when you look at fencing and security the expectation on construction is far higher than on farmers.

 

[Highland Mule]

Don't forget construction has the right to exclude the public from its construction sites......how about farmers get the same right to exclude the public from their farms?

Same laws apply to both. If there’s a RoW, construction either respects it or pays the money to get it rerouted through the same laws as are open to anyone.

 

[grass man]

I know it's delicate but is it possible some of the causes of death are published on the tff. Many of us and our staff might be doing dangerous things and not even realise it. Obviously no names need to be used

 

[Interested in farming]

That's the point I am making as well.
Most farms dont have multiple workers doing various jobs at the same time.

Its 1 farmer doing all the jobs. And most the jobs involve nasty machines or live creatures. So farmers get more deaths as its simply a more risky job. But we accept it.
Repairs of buildings especially is dangerous as you can not justify the costs of scaffolding etc to fix a broken roof sheet for example. So you use the teleporter.

The hazards are always there, the level of risk is owned by the farmer. None of the machines are dangerous if guarded properly. None of the work at height is dangerous if the right equipment is used. None of the vehicles are dangerous if people are excluded and mirrors are in place. Cattle have a much lower risk with properly designed races, crushes, bull pens, calving pens. I could go on.

Seen plenty of excellent, very safe one man bands but they invested in the right gear, kept it on the bounce off season and had a plan for the year. Ons of the best I saw was dairying with 100 cows on his own. I don't know what downtime he got but if he could do it...

 

[Vader]

The hazards are always there, the level of risk is owned by the farmer. None of the machines are dangerous if guarded properly. None of the work at height is dangerous if the right equipment is used. None of the vehicles are dangerous if people are excluded and mirrors are in place. Cattle have a much lower risk with properly designed races, crushes, bull pens, calving pens. I could go on.

Seen plenty of excellent, very safe one man bands but they invested in the right gear, kept it on the bounce off season and had a plan for the year. Ons of the best I saw was dairying with 100 cows on his own. I don't know what downtime he got but if he could do it...

Agree.
Most accidents are caused by just not taking care.

Think the investment thing is probably a problem for many. If you take over a farm and it's not been invested in,then your forever playing catch up and sadly if things are tight, then your not going to use scaffolding to go repair a roof.

 

[Interested in farming]

I know it's delicate but is it possible some of the causes of death are published on the tff. Many of us and our staff might be doing dangerous things and not even realise it. Obviously no names need to be used

My company pays for a thing called Barbour Brief and there are news letters from different safety bodies but they will never give full details.

 

[Interested in farming]

Agree.
Most accidents are caused by just not taking care.

Think the investment thing is probably a problem for many. If you take over a farm and it's not been invested in,then your forever playing catch up and sadly if things are tight, then your not going to use scaffolding to go repair a roof.

Don't disagree and for the record I really respect farmers. I might get frustrated by attitudes I see here but while I'll argue that the risks aren't totally unique farming IS different and has different challenges and I hate how the supply chain has crushed farm profits. Its a tough, tough job under pressure and when I'm advising farmers I try to see through their eyes.

 

[Interested in farming]

Fatality and Catastrophe Investigation Summaries | Occupational Safety and Health Administration osha.gov

For people wanting detail, yes it's the US but if you search using 'farm' they have a LOT of reports. OK alligator attacks probably (with farms you never know) aren't applicable but some stuff is useful.

 

[Willie adie]

Just heard where the Aberdeenshire one happened certainly never any word of it in any news

 

[PostHarvest]

I've said this before and been shot down for it but I'm convinced that its a factor in farming's poor safety record. Working to high safety standards costs money. If a builder supplies his brickies with hard hats, high vis jackets, fall arrest equipment etc and a construction site employs banksmen to guide vehicles, their cost just goes on the bill so the customer ends up paying for it all. The contractor probably adds a margin on the cost for admin, so actually makes a bit of extra profit out of safety measures. An earlier writer compares farming with the railways - but safe working on the railways must cost a fortune, special high vis, strictly defined working practices, safety lookouts etc - the cost of all this is just added to the ticket price, or claimed from HMG as subsidy. But if HSE demands that a veg grower modifies his harvester which apparently complies with continental safety standards but not the gold plated british standards [comment based on at least three recent cases I've worked on] and the grower asks the supermarket for 2p/box to cover the cost of the extra safety measures, the supermarket buyer just imports from China/Chile/wherever. So, as I see it, the poor safety record in agriculture is linked to low profitability.

 

[thesilentone]

Agree.
Most accidents are caused by just not taking care.

Think the investment thing is probably a problem for many. If you take over a farm and it's not been invested in,then your forever playing catch up and sadly if things are tight, then your not going to use scaffolding to go repair a roof.

Correct, so what is the answer ?

An answer will be required, and perhaps the discussion needs to be broadened and some ideas put forward of how we can progress collectively ?

The Church (who are always out to make a buck, despite the image of poverty) were on this many years ago.

Most Schools as part of there annual business plan include some sort of property improvement in the budget, this is scrutinised by the LEA, and normally passed.

It is then up to the Governors (Voluntary aided schools) to crack on and either appoint the Company delegated by the Education Authority to do the work, or (if they are into masochism) do the tendering, and appointing themselves.

With all this loot swalling around the Voluntary aided (Church) Schools, the Church decided to start it's own Property Services Company, and tap into money river, and take this away from the Government Appointed Companies and bring it ' in-house'

So, there is the basis of a very simple business model for farm improvement and H&S advice support, work etc.

Collectively it can work, however everyone would need to pay in, and some form of level established based on criteria agreed.

 

[Interested in farming]

I've said this before and been shot down for it but I'm convinced that its a factor in farming's poor safety record. Working to high safety standards costs money. If a builder supplies his brickies with hard hats, high vis jackets, fall arrest equipment etc and a construction site employs banksmen to guide vehicles, their cost just goes on the bill so the customer ends up paying for it all. The contractor probably adds a margin on the cost for admin, so actually makes a bit of extra profit out of safety measures. An earlier writer compares farming with the railways - but safe working on the railways must cost a fortune, special high vis, strictly defined working practices, safety lookouts etc - the cost of all this is just added to the ticket price, or claimed from HMG as subsidy. But if HSE demands that a veg grower modifies his harvester which apparently complies with continental safety standards but not the gold plated british standards [comment based on at least three recent cases I've worked on] and the grower asks the supermarket for 2p/box to cover the cost of the extra safety measures, the supermarket buyer just imports from China/Chile/wherever. So, as I see it, the poor safety record in agriculture is linked to low profitability.

Screwfix sell hard hats for £5, vi vis is similar. Not breaking mirrors off tractors, not bending ptos, not removing u guards etc are all free.
The rest of uk industry doesn't work in a vacuum and safety measures in wider industry have to be costed. The factory I worked in couldn't put up costs because 'safety', it came out of the budget. You think the same supermarkets would pay 2p per box (we made packaging) to cover my safety bill? Seen plenty of farmers with poor kit but biggest brand new tractors, flatscreen tvs, holidays etc.