3 Machinery Farm Deaths in 3 Weeks

[kiwi pom]

I'm afraid you're the one talking a load of rubbish. Don't get me wrong H&S is very important but this whole "kids shouldn't be on farms" really quite angers me. Seems to be English arable farmers, maybe its a different, less family orientated farming culture down there, but I'm a young lad of 20 and I can tell you if I wasnt about the farm as a wean then I'd probably not be farming now. There's that many distractions and other interests for youths to take nowadays especially with the internet. You should ofc drum H&S into your kids. I.e. when you hear a tractor coming, stand with your back against a wall or keep them in the cab with you. But we talk about the govt doing everything to cancel agriculture in the UK, well I think you've got a plan to beat them. If you don't introduce the next generation, There. Will. Not. Be. One!!!!!

Congratulations you survived being a kid roaming around the farm. Some didn’t, I hope your attitude changes before you have kids. Farms are job sites you can get your kids interested in Ag without them roaming unsupervised.

 

[kiwi pom]

If you told a builder to go and buy all the materials to build a house, then employ other people to help build it and once its finished, you will tell him how much you are going to pay him for all his hard work and the materials. I think you would get a 2 word answer, first word will start with an F, the last word will be off.

Farmers do that all day, everyday, buying all the inputs, seed, fert, diesel, machines, feed, straw etc. at whatever cost and then being told how much they are going get for the end product. Its a massive gamble every year that we all just go along with.

I'm not sure how It can change but it needs to

So why do it, why not be a builder?

 

[ollandroverman]

If you told a builder to go and buy all the materials to build a house, then employ other people to help build it and once its finished, you will tell him how much you are going to pay him for all his hard work and the materials. I think you would get a 2 word answer, first word will start with an F, the last word will be off.

Farmers do that all day, everyday, buying all the inputs, seed, fert, diesel, machines, feed, straw etc. at whatever cost and then being told how much they are going get for the end product. Its a massive gamble every year that we all just go along with.

I'm not sure how It can change but it needs to

Now you really are being very silly, or have a very narrow view of the world from your farm gate.

What you think is unique to farming is EXACTLY how house builders work.- buy a plot, pay an architect, buy materials, pay contractors and staff, and when you finish you sell for what price the market deems it to be worth.

 

[e5c0rt.mk1]

So why do it, why not be a builder?

If everyone thought like that, there would be a few hungry people kicking about.

How many farms are kept going with the money off holiday cottages, glamping etc. ?
You would never see a quarry putting up a couple of glamping pods in their quarry, just so they could stay in business.

This is starting to go way off topic, if farmers had more money, they would have more newer machines, newer machines are safer. Its not going to stop people getting run over but it would massively cut the amount of accidents in farming.

 

[Andy Nash]

I'm afraid you're the one talking a load of rubbish. Don't get me wrong H&S is very important but this whole "kids shouldn't be on farms" really quite angers me. Seems to be English arable farmers, maybe its a different, less family orientated farming culture down there, but I'm a young lad of 20 and I can tell you if I wasnt about the farm as a wean then I'd probably not be farming now. There's that many distractions and other interests for youths to take nowadays especially with the internet. You should ofc drum H&S into your kids. I.e. when you hear a tractor coming, stand with your back against a wall or keep them in the cab with you. But we talk about the govt doing everything to cancel agriculture in the UK, well I think you've got a plan to beat them. If you don't introduce the next generation, There. Will. Not. Be. One!!!!!

Agreed. Half the problem with kids nowadays is they have no idea of hazard perception.
I’ll bet you were told where you were allowed to go and the dangers that you would face on the farm.
I was always told that the tractor will not stop for you if you get in the way.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

Agreed. Half the problem with kids nowadays is they have no idea of hazard perception.
I’ll bet you were told where you were allowed to go and the dangers that you would face on the farm.
I was always told that the tractor will not stop for you if you get in the way.

I remember being told, the problem isn't the children born on the farm, it is often the cousins who come to stay on the family farm and don't have the same idea about what is safe or unsafe to do.

Personally whenever I was on the tractor and my children were small, they were with me in the cab. And if there were things like silaging going on, they only went out to look with an adult.

I have noticed with my cousins children they can do silly things if I am not watching.

 

[e5c0rt.mk1]

Now you really are being very silly, or have a very narrow view of the world from your farm gate.

What you think is unique to farming is EXACTLY how house builders work.- buy a plot, pay an architect, buy materials, pay contractors and staff, and when you finish you sell for what price the market deems it to be worth.

I dont have a narrow view of the world, I'm involved with alot more things than farming.

Someone building a house has a very good idea whats its worth before building it, if they didn't they wouldn't be building houses for very long. The amount of profit in a house is unreal compared to anything in farm. Spend 250-300k building a house and end up with 500k+ house at the end of it. Or buy a 250k combine and have it sat in the shed depreciating for 10 months a year.

I have nothing against builders just using them as an example, its the farming system that is wrong but it'll never change as they will just buy from someone else or somewhere else in the world.

 

[glasshouse]

Sounds like you should give up farming and start building, if it's that easy. If you sold all your invested assets you could probably afford to retire early too, then just buy a trowel and a spade when you get bored.

Your gibbering just gets worse

 

[thesilentone]

So why are people still falling through roofs or unblocking running machines or crashing quad bikes? Many of these people claim to be competent but are just cutting corners due to costs? I don't think that's true. I think we need to look at the individual's ability to do the tasks. I think a lot of the time that some of the commentors on here would be fired or kicked off site if they worked for someone else because they simply don't have the awareness or basic skills to do the job safely.
I mentioned this before, but a mate's boss recently bought a small farm and employed the farmer in the business. They had to let him go because of his inability to carry out work correctly and safely, he was putting the rest of the team at risk, and yet he had been the business owner and soul worker for a couple of decades.

I don't know how you fix stupid but some of these tragic accidents are because of stupidity.
Everyone knows better and blames something else though.

I agree, however you have to walk before you run.

Where family is involved, it is the elephant in the room. My grandsons drive tractors and ride around on quads, however they have had motocross bikes and buggys to try and kill themselves on, and have learned about risk, and how it hurts if ignored.

But, the reality is, they should not be driving round on tractors and riding around on quads on the farm, it is a business, and should be treated as such. But, I don't want to speak up, just incase the worst ever happens and someone gets hurt.

So, maybe we should start early, rural and farm kids have friends, friends stay over, and quads are like a magnet.

So maybe school age is the place to gently introduce the hazards, quads tipping over, vehicles reversing, climbing onto roofs (another thing the little bxxxers get up to) etc.

It's a starting point.

 

[killie_cowboy]

Congratulations you survived being a kid roaming around the farm. Some didn’t, I hope your attitude changes before you have kids. Farms are job sites you can get your kids interested in Ag without them roaming unsupervised.

Be under no illusions, it's a dangerous old world. Youre better to teach them how to avoid accidents than wrap them in cotton wool before being thrown into the world with no common sense or ideas on how to keep themselves safe because somebody else has always done that for them. There's only so much sitting them in the house in front of tractor Ted can do. Some of my fondest childhood memories are waking up to the mowers going and bursting all day at school to get out and do some tractor surfing and watching the machinery. To have been deprived of that would be unforgivable.

 

[ollandroverman]

I dont have a narrow view of the world, I'm involved with alot more things than farming.

Someone building a house has a very good idea whats its worth before building it, if they didn't they wouldn't be building houses for very long. The amount of profit in a house is unreal compared to anything in farm. Spend 250-300k building a house and end up with 500k+ house at the end of it.

Your maths of jealousy fall a fair bit short. Barratts, the country's biggest house builder, made £34849 pre tax profit per house sale last year.
Despite their efficiency of scale , they clearly need you to show them where they are missing out on these huge profits.

 

[Interested in farming]

I remember being told, the problem isn't the children born on the farm, it is often the cousins who come to stay on the family farm and don't have the same idea about what is safe or unsafe to do.

Personally whenever I was on the tractor and my children were small, they were with me in the cab. And if there were things like silaging going on, they only went out to look with an adult.

I have noticed with my cousins children they can do silly things if I am not watching.

Agriculture: Children and public safety

Do farm children understand farm risks? Every year children are killed during agricultural work. Most children who die are family members.

www.hse.gov.uk

It's actually illegal to have under 13s in the cab. No intention of getting into the debate of whether it's a good idea or not, it's one for farmers who can't seem to agree on this but I note that HSE doesn't say kids can't be around farm work full stop.

 

[Interested in farming]

I agree, however you have to walk before you run.

Where family is involved, it is the elephant in the room. My grandsons drive tractors and ride around on quads, however they have had motocross bikes and buggys to try and kill themselves on, and have learned about risk, and how it hurts if ignored.

But, the reality is, they should not be driving round on tractors and riding around on quads on the farm, it is a business, and should be treated as such. But, I don't want to speak up, just incase the worst ever happens and someone gets hurt.

So, maybe we should start early, rural and farm kids have friends, friends stay over, and quads are like a magnet.

So maybe school age is the place to gently introduce the hazards, quads tipping over, vehicles reversing, climbing onto roofs (another thing the little bxxxers get up to) etc.

It's a starting point.

It's illegal to have kids in tractors under 13 but that's a debate for farmers. Quads are a different matter and there are loads of non farm accidents - I was on one of those team bonding days where a girl using one was nearly killed when she hit a tree.

Your point about introducing hazards at the right time is the right one but nothing is worse than the death of a child and it needs to be sensibly managed. I grew up playing on building sites and wouldn’t dream of letting my kids play in 1/2 built houses.

I think letting kids get involved in feeding with an adult at the right age, and building from there is sensible but met a guy at a training course who lost an arm as a kid and to this day he thinks it was his fault for not staying away from an unguarded pto. Personally I think whoever let a youngster near unguarded machinery is at fault. Life with out an arm for £80 of plastic.

 

[e5c0rt.mk1]

Your maths of jealousy fall a fair bit short. Barratts, the country's biggest house builder, made £34849 pre tax profit per house sale last year.
Despite their efficiency of scale , they clearly need you to show them where they are missing out on these huge profits.

Yeah but they will get 4 little houses onto the plot of one big one. 4 x £34849 = £139396. So what is the point you are trying to make ????

If you really think barratts, or any small time builder would build a house that costs 250k - 300k to build and only get £35000 profit from it, you are on a different planet.

People who have built their own houses know, you can get alot more house for your money if you build it rather than buy it. Who would put up with all the hassle of building their own to save 35 grand. Barratts are doing it on a huge scale loads of small cheap affordable houses that sell quick, not loads of profit but when your building 17000 a year, it adds up, they made £646.6m profit last year. And you are trying to say there is no money in building houses.

 

[glasshouse]

Now you really are being very silly, or have a very narrow view of the world from your farm gate.

What you think is unique to farming is EXACTLY how house builders work.- buy a plot, pay an architect, buy materials, pay contractors and staff, and when you finish you sell for what price the market deems it to be worth.

Nonsense
They are mostly pre sold
No sale= no build

 

[PostHarvest]

The very real risk of a serious accident in industry or construction is financial ruination

Farmers run exactly the same risk. I've looked at several recent accident cases on farms where the fines being proposed/threatened by HSE were eye-watering. They calculate their fines on a proportion of turnover, not profit.

 

[ollie989898]

Nonsense
They are mostly pre sold
No sale= no build

But the housing market is quite right in that people will only pay what they think a property is worth. Anything else is just make-believe.

You could build two houses of identical spec, one in Surrey and one in Cumbria and their value could well be hugely different- because of market conditions.

Unless Mr Barratt homes is some kind of uber-genius then he has no control over the final price of a house. He builds them and then hopes folk want to buy them for a reasonable sum which includes a profit for him. Of course, whether people want to buy them is a very different thing to being able to buy them given the huge shifts in the economy inside the last 5 years.

 

[Interested in farming]

Farmers run exactly the same risk. I've looked at several recent accident cases on farms where the fines being proposed/threatened by HSE were eye-watering. They calculate their fines on a proportion of turnover, not profit.

HSE can't fine or set fines. Those are only set by the courts against sentencing guidelines. They can charge under fee for intervention but that's entirely separate.

 

[Interested in farming]

Farmers run exactly the same risk. I've looked at several recent accident cases on farms where the fines being proposed/threatened by HSE were eye-watering. They calculate their fines on a proportion of turnover, not profit.

Penalties - Court Stage - Enforcement Guide (England & Wales)

This Guide sets out the law and legal practice relevant to the criminal enforcement of health and safety duties.

www.hse.gov.uk

That's the guidelines. They're set by parliament and awarded by a judge.

 

[ollandroverman]

As for the bricklaying, if I couldnt get the hang of it in a week and be as good as any bricky in a month I'd be ashamed of myself.

That is the most arrogant statement I've heard in some time.
The phrase "employ a teenager whilst they still know everything" springs to mind

If you really think barratts, or any small time builder would build a house that costs 250k - 300k to build and only get £35000 profit from it, you are on a different planet.

I'm afraid it's fact.
Easy to find in the public domain.
You need to tell the countries biggest house builder they are doing it all wrong!