8 Acre Agricultural Land

[Tray]

We purchased 8 Acres of Agricultural Land near Penistone South Yorkshire over 12 months ago. There is a small building, falling down lodge/summer house and 2 falling down sheds within a Orchard area.

We have spent the 12 months re-building fences to make them stock proof dry stone walls re-pairs to make them safe and tidy fallen down trees in a small Woodland area.

We have been broken into twice now so and equipement has been stolen before we put some sheep and goats on the land and put them at risk does anyone know what chance we may have of staying in a mobile home or tent or wooden chalet (with agricultural ties) so we can take the business to the next level. Our plans are for a small holding which is self sufficient and sell our meat/milk and other small business idea's.

We live about 12 miles from the land so if anything happens to the animals we are at least 30 mins drive away.

Any comments are apprecaited

 

[George from SJM Planning]

We purchased 8 Acres of Agricultural Land near Penistone South Yorkshire over 12 months ago. There is a small building, falling down lodge/summer house and 2 falling down sheds within a Orchard area.

We have spent the 12 months re-building fences to make them stock proof dry stone walls re-pairs to make them safe and tidy fallen down trees in a small Woodland area.

We have been broken into twice now so and equipement has been stolen before we put some sheep and goats on the land and put them at risk does anyone know what chance we may have of staying in a mobile home or tent or wooden chalet (with agricultural ties) so we can take the business to the next level. Our plans are for a small holding which is self sufficient and sell our meat/milk and other small business idea's.

We live about 12 miles from the land so if anything happens to the animals we are at least 30 mins drive away.

Any comments are apprecaited

Planning for any kind of residential dwelling on a site as small as 8ac will be very difficult, nigh on impossible in reality. You would need to provide a robust 5 year business plan showing you can survive primarily from the land whilst servicing any expense in constructing the dwelling, overhauling the holding etc. Then you would probably be looking at a 3 year temporary permission so the council can reassess your situation before the business plan period has been completed.

Your only other option is a Para 79 house i.e a Grand Designs type property.

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Planning for any kind of residential dwelling on a site as small as 8ac will be very difficult, nigh on impossible in reality. You would need to provide a robust 5 year business plan showing you can survive primarily from the land whilst servicing any expense in constructing the dwelling, overhauling the holding etc. Then you would probably be looking at a 3 year temporary permission so the council can reassess your situation before the business plan period has been completed.

Your only other option is a Para 79 house i.e a Grand Designs type property.

Sorry, I assume the site is in the countryside, not within a recognised settlement

 

[teslacoils]

No. Not a chance.

Are you registered with DEFRA for having sheep and goats? How many do you expect to keep on 8ac? 30?

Can it get mains water and electric?

Best option, if you are wanting to do a glorified Good Life is to sell it and buy something similar in Wales where I believe their laws for living off the land are more favourable.

 

[spin cycle]

go to the planners....or get an architect.....argue that you're going to remove the derelict buildings and replace with something better.....is the small building convertable.....any asbestos on site

 

[George from SJM Planning]

No. Not a chance.

Are you registered with DEFRA for having sheep and goats? How many do you expect to keep on 8ac? 30?

Can it get mains water and electric?

Best option, if you are wanting to do a glorified Good Life is to sell it and buy something similar in Wales where I believe their laws for living off the land are more favourable.

Laws are just the same in Wales just the enforcement officers just don't have the resources to deal with all the breaches.

 

[farmerm]

We purchased 8 Acres of Agricultural Land near Penistone South Yorkshire over 12 months ago. There is a small building, falling down lodge/summer house and 2 falling down sheds within a Orchard area.

We have spent the 12 months re-building fences to make them stock proof dry stone walls re-pairs to make them safe and tidy fallen down trees in a small Woodland area.

We have been broken into twice now so and equipement has been stolen before we put some sheep and goats on the land and put them at risk does anyone know what chance we may have of staying in a mobile home or tent or wooden chalet (with agricultural ties) so we can take the business to the next level. Our plans are for a small holding which is self sufficient and sell our meat/milk and other small business idea's.

We live about 12 miles from the land so if anything happens to the animals we are at least 30 mins drive away.

Any comments are apprecaited

8acres, I hope you haven't given up the day jobs... plenty of farmers struggle to make a decent living from 208acres. But I wish you best of luck. Depending on location you might get away with having a caravan on site, at least for a while... if it isn't too visible from the road and no one complains to the council....

 

[George from SJM Planning]

go to the planners....or get an architect.....argue that you're going to remove the derelict buildings and replace with something better.....is the small building convertable.....any asbestos on site

You would still be creating a new dwelling in the countryside which is contrary to the NPPF

 

[spin cycle]

You would still be creating a new dwelling in the countryside which is contrary to the NPPF

you'd perhaps know better tham me,,,,,but round here ag buildings being pulled down and houses built.....i'd forget the ag argument and go on the basis that there's a right old mess that you're willing to remove in exchange for a dwelling....those sheds/lodge/buildings making it a brownfield site

 

[Tray]

It is well hidden from the road side surrounded by well established trees/woodland. No we haven't given up our day jobs but you have to start somewhere to try and start and the area is Agricultural so there are fields to rent if needed for later.

We are registered with DEFRA and it's not about trying to be a glorified good life either it's trying to provide a small business for our child in years to come. My father grown up on a large dairy farm so we do have a background in farming, but due to illness my grandfather had to sell the farm some years ago and unfortunately the owners sold out years later and it is now it's a monster of a housing estate which is very annoying!!

We did not wish to build a home on the land we were renting a small house close by but with the break-in's this has changed the situation regarding damage to the dry stone walls and the old building and if once some animals are on the land if people leave gates open etc the livestock will roam onto a busy main road.

If a building was ever approved it would only be a small wooded type structure not a grand design style. There is a nature spring water supply and main water would be possible with also electric connection.

I appreciate your time and comments.

 

[George from SJM Planning]

It is well hidden from the road side surrounded by well established trees/woodland. No we haven't given up our day jobs but you have to start somewhere to try and start and the area is Agricultural so there are fields to rent if needed for later.

We are registered with DEFRA and it's not about trying to be a glorified good life either it's trying to provide a small business for our child in years to come. My father grown up on a large dairy farm so we do have a background in farming, but due to illness my grandfather had to sell the farm some years ago and unfortunately the owners sold out years later and it is now it's a monster of a housing estate which is very annoying!!

We did not wish to build a home on the land we were renting a small house close by but with the break-in's this has changed the situation regarding damage to the dry stone walls and the old building and if once some animals are on the land if people leave gates open etc the livestock will roam onto a busy main road.

If a building was ever approved it would only be a small wooded type structure not a grand design style. There is a nature spring water supply and main water would be possible with also electric connection.

I appreciate your time and comments.

I think you need to speak with your local planning department. They all offer Pre-Application Advice services and you can explain your situation and see what they say.

 

[George from SJM Planning]

you'd perhaps know better tham me,,,,,but round here ag buildings being pulled down and houses built.....i'd forget the ag argument and go on the basis that there's a right old mess that you're willing to remove in exchange for a dwelling....those sheds/lodge/buildings making it a brownfield site

There is an arguement for the reuse of rural buildings for other uses to keep said buildings from being lost but most use classes would need to be deemed unviable for housing to be considered.
Class Q doesn't seem to be applicable on this occasion so it would need to be a Para 79 or Rural workers dwelling (AOC) for it to be acceptable in line with the NPPF.
There may be a relaxation in these requirements in you Local Authority Development Plan if there is an abundance of derelict buildings and the council have decided they are open to those buildings being repurposed.
Unfortunately, I am not able to comment on every LPA's Local Development Plan's!!!

 

[Tray]

There is an arguement for the reuse of rural buildings for other uses to keep said buildings from being lost but most use classes would need to be deemed unviable for housing to be considered.
Class Q doesn't seem to be applicable on this occasion so it would need to be a Para 79 or Rural workers dwelling (AOC) for it to be acceptable in line with the NPPF.
There may be a relaxation in these requirements in you Local Authority Development Plan if there is an abundance of derelict buildings and the council have decided they are open to those buildings being repurposed.
Unfortunately, I am not able to comment on every LPA's Local Development Plan's!!!

Thank you for your reply. I will contact our Local Authority and see how the conversation goes!!

 

[Grouse]

Going to be blunt - on 8 acres a chance of an occupational dwelling is virtually nil - there are thousands of people trying the same excuse and LPA’s are weary of the same “justification” being quoted day in day out

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Going to be blunt - on 8 acres a chance of an occupational dwelling is virtually nil - there are thousands of people trying the same excuse and LPA’s are weary of the same “justification” being quoted day in day out

Totally agree, unless you are growing something you shouldn't I have yet to find an agricultural/horticultural/forestry business that can support a full time wage on 8ac that also requires that person to reside on site.
New dwellings in the countryside are in my opinion one of the hardest planning applications to be successful.

 

[teslacoils]

I wasn't allowed a house for 2000 pigs on 60ac. Fine for me to commute apparently.

I asked about the utilities as then you could apply for a caravan club site, and you could park your caravan there for 27 out of every 28 days.......

 

[Tray]

We have looked into the caravan club site as looking in the area there are approx 4 farms that have applied and been agreed and 2 have since closed down but didn't really want to go down that route, but it may be the only option looking at all the comments.

 

[Smith31]

Totally agree, unless you are growing something you shouldn't I have yet to find an agricultural/horticultural/forestry business that can support a full time wage on 8ac that also requires that person to reside on site.
New dwellings in the countryside are in my opinion one of the hardest planning applications to be successful.

A couple have tried around here on larger parcels of land. The planning officers have taken screenshots from Rightmove of houses to let or buy within a few miles radius of the site and have questioned why the applicants could not let or buy a residential property closer to the farm land, rather then a new build or even monitor stock using cameras. They aren't daft.

 

[chaffcutter]

Would you need it to be a CCClub site, I thought you could park a touring van for upto 28 days without needing any sort of planning permission?

 

[George from SJM Planning]

A couple have tried around here on larger parcels of land. The planning officers have taken screenshots from Rightmove of houses to let or buy within a few miles radius of the site and have questioned why the applicants could not let or buy a residential property closer to the farm land, rather then a new build or even monitor stock using cameras. They aren't daft.

That shows how difficult it is!