Aborted calves

[Guiggs]

Noticed my favourite cow bagging up the other day which threw me as she calved mid march last year, bit of discharge a couple of days ago and she started acting like calving was imminent, just found 2 dead calves,fully formed but small,about the size of a large terrier!
Gutted!
What do you think may have caused her to abort them?
Should I be worried?
What should I do with the cow now?
I have a small herd and don't have room for passengers so I'm looking to sell the crosses to buy in more pedigrees however I was going to keep her as she has tonnes of milk and always rears a very good calf,she is also a bit of a pet,this would have been her 4th calving.
My head says cull her my heart says give her another chance!
Typical as I've got a horrible little lim cross that has crap calves and a bad attitude I'd have happily loaded her up tomorrow if it was her!!!

 

[GTB]

Get them down the lab asap. If there's nothing obvious I'd put it down to a fall or a knock and give her another calf and try her again.

 

[Henarar]

IBR ??????

 

[Princess Pooper]

Loads of potential causes of abortion, although many have no known cause even after lab work. As GTB suggested, get them, with a blood sample from the cow, and preferably some cleansing, in for testing. We have had several this year, no known cause, not neospora, lepto IBR or bvd, as well as a couple of known neospora carriers aborting (didn't bother to send those in). Some cows are going, some are staying, depending on their age, history and stage of lactation. We had a heifer go for beef as had 2 mummified calves inside her last yr, suspect happens more often with twins.

 

[AGN76]

I'd say it was down to it just been twins, I see loads of dairy cows that have been scanned in to calf to twins slip them. Test to be sure but I'd wager she'll come back clear. Then put her back in calf!

 

[Guiggs]

Thanks for the replys,
I'm hoping as they were twins that it's just one of those things although the owner of the field walks his dogs around it and doesn't seem to pick the sh1t up but they've only been in there a few days so can't see that being a problem!
She'd have reared twins no problem as well.always the way!

 

[AGN76]

@bovine what does the test involve for testing dogs for neospora?

 

[Sandpit Farm]

@bovine what does the test involve for testing dogs for neospora?

Would seem easier to test the cow and assume all dog sh!t will carry Neospora. Our dogs are vaccinated against Lepto but not Neo

 

[Sandpit Farm]

P.S. So sorry to the OP. It's an awful situation. It's easy for others to say just cull her but you simply cannot make that decision without testing (unless it puts you out of sync for seasonal calving and you need to keep her empty until the next bulling window).

I believe there is now a PCR test kit supplied by LSI that can test for abortive disease from vaginal swab or placental sample. I'm not sure if any UK labs are using it as yet but suspect the VLA would be your best bet.

 

[AGN76]

Would seem easier to test the cow and assume all dog sh!t will carry Neospora. Our dogs are vaccinated against Lepto but not Neo

Was asking for my own interest more than anything

 

[Guiggs]

Thank you @Sandpit Farm, it's a bit of a blow and as I don't have many cows losing two calves is a bitter pill but that's how it goes sometimes, hopefully it won't be anything too sinister.
The calving time isn't a major issue but she would make good money if I put a bit of condition on her, just got to weigh up the pro's and cons!

 

[tr250]

Thank you @Sandpit Farm, it's a bit of a blow and as I don't have many cows losing two calves is a bitter pill but that's how it goes sometimes, hopefully it won't be anything too sinister.
The calving time isn't a major issue but she would make good money if I put a bit of condition on her, just got to weigh up the pro's and cons!

We are hard on cows that don't get in calf and there are no second chances but its not the cows own fault for aborting the calves being twins there is also a lot more chance of this happening for piece of mind you could have a test we have done and we have had plenty done but most come back negative for everything so it's cost you and for nothing. I would expect 1 in a 100 to abort anyway If not more. So we would be inclined to run it round again if it was ours

 

[Blaithin]

Noticed my favourite cow bagging up the other day which threw me as she calved mid march last year, bit of discharge a couple of days ago and she started acting like calving was imminent, just found 2 dead calves,fully formed but small,about the size of a large terrier!
Gutted!
What do you think may have caused her to abort them?
Should I be worried?
What should I do with the cow now?
I have a small herd and don't have room for passengers so I'm looking to sell the crosses to buy in more pedigrees however I was going to keep her as she has tonnes of milk and always rears a very good calf,she is also a bit of a pet,this would have been her 4th calving.
My head says cull her my heart says give her another chance!
Typical as I've got a horrible little lim cross that has crap calves and a bad attitude I'd have happily loaded her up tomorrow if it was her!!!

You mention she was bagging up, does she have milk? Buy some calves and put them on her if she does. No need to waste the lactation even if you did lose the calves.

I'd be inclined to think it was an abortion caused by the twins vs an infection. They don't normally bag up like a typical birth if it's an infection afaik. They need the proper hormones to do that.

 

[S J H]

I'd say it was down to it just been twins, I see loads of dairy cows that have been scanned in to calf to twins slip them. Test to be sure but I'd wager she'll come back clear. Then put her back in calf!

I had one abort twins last year, scared the shite out of me, as I found one in the morning and one at night.

I'd keep her on, if you like her. Life's too short.

 

[bovine]

@bovine what does the test involve for testing dogs for neospora?

Its a blood test. Will show if the dog has been exposed, but nothing else. A dog is infected with neospora and sheds for a few days and then becomes immune. Older immune dogs are no risk. Puppies are a problem. Very old immuno-supressed dogs may go on to shed later in life. There is no merit in testing dogs.

With a single abortion I would put it down to the twins as a known significant risk factor.

One point - please DO NOT buy a calf in to rear. Such an amazing way of bringing disease onto a farm - including neospora!

 

[Hampton]

Mine always get one more chance after abortion or losing calf (although I tend to adopt a bought calf on to her.
I still think that it is cheaper to give them another chance (providing they are fit, healthy and been good mothers in the past) than it is to buy a replacement heifer or cow.
On a slightly different subject, I scan all my early lambing ewes, and the barren ones go back to the tup with the late lambing bunch. If they go barren again they are off. Treat my cows the same (although I acknowledge it takes longer to get your money back).

 

[tr250]

Its a blood test. Will show if the dog has been exposed, but nothing else. A dog is infected with neospora and sheds for a few days and then becomes immune. Older immune dogs are no risk. Puppies are a problem. Very old immuno-supressed dogs may go on to shed later in life. There is no merit in testing dogs.

With a single abortion I would put it down to the twins as a known significant risk factor.

One point - please DO NOT buy a calf in to rear. Such an amazing way of bringing disease onto a farm - including neospora!

I would put a calf on her from a known source but be carefull and keep them away from all others til end of calving at least. I'm not a big believer in closed herds but am a fan of minimising risk but a closed herd is very nieve it only takes neighbers bull to get out and you could have trouble

 

[gone up the hill]

Its a blood test. Will show if the dog has been exposed, but nothing else. A dog is infected with neospora and sheds for a few days and then becomes immune. Older immune dogs are no risk. Puppies are a problem. Very old immuno-supressed dogs may go on to shed later in life. There is no merit in testing dogs.

With a single abortion I would put it down to the twins as a known significant risk factor.

One point - please DO NOT buy a calf in to rear. Such an amazing way of bringing disease onto a farm - including neospora!

If she has enough milk then buy in a calf for her!! clearly disease is already on the farm as she has aborted so no point shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted!!

Best thing the OP can do is get some bloods tests done for Lepto/ Bvd etc on this cow and 3/4 others! personally with a small herd I would bite the bullet and just vac for Lepto/ Bvd and be done with it..

 

[Guiggs]

You mention she was bagging up, does she have milk? Buy some calves and put them on her if she does. No need to waste the lactation even if you did lose the calves.

I'd be inclined to think it was an abortion caused by the twins vs an infection. They don't normally bag up like a typical birth if it's an infection afaik. They need the proper hormones to do that.

If I can source a calf locally I might give it a go but I work off the farm so haven't telly got the time to muck about, will give it some thought!

 

[Guiggs]

If she has enough milk then buy in a calf for her!! clearly disease is already on the farm as she has aborted so no point shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted!!

Best thing the OP can do is get some bloods tests done for Lepto/ Bvd etc on this cow and 3/4 others! personally with a small herd I would bite the bullet and just vac for Lepto/ Bvd and be done with it..

I hope it doesn't neccesarily mean I have disease on the farm,but as you say I might as well vaccinate anyway, I'll chat to my vet Monday!