Access to our field

[Danllan]

I'm in Somerset . We have said this to them and they have not provided us with any evidence. The land is behind 3 properties which was part of the original farm belonging to my family so I know where all the boundaries are for these. I want to access my field as I might sell the land but we need the original access to it .

Just re-reading what you've written... does the access lane join on to a public right of way? If so your first shout should be to your County's Highways Dep't to advise as to whether the access you want is in fact a public highway (oddly, many of these publicly owned 'roads' are not registered). If it is public, you can't have it, but you can use it and the Council will have to keep it clear for you.

If it is not owned publicly, and it is not owned by the three properties adjoining / adjacent to it, I think it pretty likely it belongs / belonged to the farm, who else...? This being so, if it isn't on your deeds you'll have to make an application to the Land Registry to see if they will amend things properly, this might require involving the Court.

But that is speculation on my part, get all the info and get competent advice.

 

[Grassman]

If you still don't have proof it's yours after you have seen the deeds (or anyone else's ) get a gate put on it.
Get some work done on it tidying it up and repairing. You will soon have someone telling you to stop. Ask them to prove it's theirs and at least you will find out who owns it!

 

[Dotty 16]

Hopefully we will see them tomorrow the local council have visited the site as one of the neighbours demanded them to come and have a look at what my husband had been doing in regards to clearing the lane and the ditch they didn't really not what to say or do as they just left the site saying they were going to go back and look into it but we haven't heard a thing surely they would of put an enforcement on us if we were doing wrong ???

 

[Still Farming]

Finish clearing it fast .
When do its done ?

 

[Cropwell]

I would think that if the lane is not a public right of way the council has nothing to do with it.

 

[Still Farming]

I would think that if the lane is not a public right of way the council has nothing to do with it.

Unless conservation area -TPO 's etc. etc ???

 

[phillipe]

if the neighbours house was once part of the farm ,it will be on his deeds if it is his,doesnt sound like it,clear it and use it ,they cant stop you

 

[Pond digger]

The 1910 Finance Act Plan can be quite useful; give it a Google.

 

[Old Boar]

Logic dictates that the lane was put there for a reason and the reason may well have been to get to the field in question. Your deeds should make this clear.
It may be worth looking at the Tithe map of the area.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/tithes/

http://www.ukgdl.org.uk/county/somerset/tithe_records

The Tithe map lists all areas including paths, and who they belonged to at the time. If it was part of an estate, the tenant will be listed, along with all the land he farmed. If nothing else, it is interesting. Of course it does not show who may have the rights now, but does give an indication of who owned it originally if it does not appear in the deeds.

 

[Exfarmer]

Firstly, it is safe to assume all land belongs to someone. The Land Registry are either unaware or have just plain got it wrong. Sometimes ownership rights are lost in the mist of time.
LR are notorious for having boundaries wrong.
Highways of all sorts , normally belong to the landowner alongside, unless the highway is a recent road , since WW2 or been modified and the land has been purchased by the loacal council or government.

Second , it should not be possible to buy land which has no access, so your solicitor should have checked this out , when the property was purchased.
However this right may have only been on foot, with without animals etc..

If this lane is restricted to a footpath and you have no other right , there may be issues.
No one can extinguish a right in your deeds, so they are your first port of call, and others have said first read through yourself first.
Technically you have no right to remove these obstructions but the neighbour must, if it is blocking your right of access.
I have never heard of anyone succesfully suing somebody for removing an obstruction but you must offer the branches etc back to him, or chuck it over his hedge if he is awkward.
If you have a right to use this lane in your deeds just go in and do it

 

[Dry Rot]

Probably irrelevant, but I did know a man who claimed he had inadvertently bought a piece of land sarrounded by private houses with no legal access to it. So he gifted it to the local community rather than go through the hassle of getting the rights.

I always wondered about that for the reason exfarmer mentioned. It is illogical that anyone would sell a piece of land with no legal access to it and equally as illogical that someone would buy it. But having had a few dealings with solicitors, I can quite see why a solicitor would have no problems in taking a fee for handling such a transaction!

My (now ex) solicitor did some work for me after obtaining the wrong title deeds. Apparently, it is my fault he went ahead on his own initiative and got the wrong deeds from the registry even though he was supplied with more than enough information to get the right ones! Another missed several acres on a land purchase and shrugged his shoulders when I mentioned it. Fortunately, the Law Society of Scotland didn't agree with him. That problem was resolved by taking out an insurance policy against the possibility of a dispute in the future, which the solicitor paid for.

Yes, by all means OP, read the deeds yourself. The fact that you are on here proves that you have no problem with joined up writing and some solicitors do find that challenging. Even my (ex) accountant made a 100% error in adding up his own bill -- in his favour, of course!

 

[Nearly]

Probably irrelevant, but I did know a man who claimed he had inadvertently bought a piece of land sarrounded by private houses with no legal access to it. So he gifted it to the local community rather than go through the hassle of getting the rights.

I always wondered about that for the reason exfarmer mentioned. It is illogical that anyone would sell a piece of land with no legal access to it and equally as illogical that someone would buy it. But having had a few dealings with solicitors, I can quite see why a solicitor would have no problems in taking a fee for handling such a transaction!

My (now ex) solicitor did some work for me after obtaining the wrong title deeds. Apparently, it is my fault he went ahead on his own initiative and got the wrong deeds from the registry even though he was supplied with more than enough information to get the right ones! Another missed several acres on a land purchase and shrugged his shoulders when I mentioned it. Fortunately, the Law Society of Scotland didn't agree with him. That problem was resolved by taking out an insurance policy against the possibility of a dispute in the future, which the solicitor paid for.

Yes, by all means OP, read the deeds yourself. The fact that you are on here proves that you have no problem with joined up writing and some solicitors do find that challenging. Even my (ex) accountant made a 100% error in adding up his own bill -- in his favour, of course!

Our former farmyard was sold with a 2 acre field. The developer split the field between 3 the converted buildings and managed to give just one of the houses a 4' wide access into the top half of the field. Another house has NO ACCESS into their acre of land and have had to rent it to their neighbours to keep it tidy. Solicitors - pah!

 

[caveman]

I think it is impossible to deny access to a "marooned" piece of land one may have sold off.
There may not be a particular right of way...... but the buyer will be able to access over the vendor's property as if they have done from time immemorial.
My holding is accessed over previous owners land. I see on the title that the original right of way wording was struck out and replaced with said default mechanism. Will look out deed and post the correct wording.

 

[Nearly]

I think it is impossible to deny access to a "marooned" piece of land one may have sold off.
There may not be a particular right of way...... but the buyer will be able to access over the vendor's property as if they have done from time immemorial.
My holding is accessed over previous owners land. I see on the title that the original right of way wording was struck out and replaced with said default mechanism. Will look out deed and post the correct wording.

If that reply was to my post I'd be very interested but as there was another owner 'in between' then the house owner will have an access across his neighbour's paddock, but that only has a 4' wide access due to the developer extending the original building across the access that we left them with.
I wait with interest.
N

 

[Bones]

Land can be either registered or unregistered. If the land is unregistered it does not mean that no one owns it.

Historically ownership of land was evidenced by a bundle of deeds dating back to the year dot. Every time the land changed hands, a new deed was created transferring it from A to B and this new deed was added to the bundle. One of the jobs of a conveyancing solicitor was to check all the deeds to ensure buyer was getting good title to the land. Your evidence of ownership is the bundle of deeds and not an entry on a registered. Hence the term 'un-registered' land.

I do not know about England, Wales or Scotland, but in Northern Ireland (and the Republic of Ireland) every time a piece of land whose ownership was evidenced by a bundle of deeds transferred ownership, there was a memorial issued by the Registry of Deeds. (I know this body has 'Registry' in its title, but the underlying land is still referred to as un-registered as it is evidenced by the bundle of deeds and not a land certificate or folio, as explained below). Just to confuse things and make it impossible to trace an owner via the Registry of Deeds (at least in NI), all memorials are filed by sellers name and date of sale! So you need to know the previous owners name to find the present owner. Nonsense!!

Then as time moved on, it was thought that it would be better if all land was registered at a central registry and Land Registry was formed. Here there is a single deed (called a land certificate or folio) for the land and it is this that is the formal and definitive statement of ownership. This gives rise to the term 'registered land'.

In the last few years there has been a move to force all land onto the Register. Therefore all land previously on deeds is being moved to the Land Registry every time there is a transfer of the land.

From what you have been told, the land is not registered i.e. it does not have a land certificate or folio. If owned by anyone the ownership will be evidenced by a bundle of deeds.

It is quite possible that the land is not owned, or the original owner is long dead and forgotten and no heir bothered to claim it. If that is the case you may be able to claim the land as some posters above have mentioned.

If you have a right of way over the land / lane, then be careful about what you are saying over when you last used it. In Northern Ireland, if a right of way is not exercised for a period of 12 years, then it can be lost.

I would get some professional advice.

@Danllan is the above summary correct for England & Wales?

In northern Ireland its 5 years period then it can be lost, but its a mine field , even if the excess is not passable by tractor or car because its over grown , there nothing to stop you from saying you walked the lane onced a year in the middle of the night . also you have the right to clear the lane to make it passable, face the hedges . but not allowed to cut the top of hedges . solicitors love this krap.