"Action end date" = "agreement end date"

[Grass And Grain]

Sent in a querie to RPA about SFI.

I applied for CNUM3 (legume fallow). I was hoping for a start date of 1st Sept, but they haven't got application processed, so possibly looking at a start date of 1st Nov.

For CNUM3, the prescription says you've to keep/maintain the option until "the action's end date". I didn't know if this meant "agreement end date", or say end of summer when you might normally think about destroying legume fallow and re-establishing.

Anyway, RPA have confirmed that "action end date" is the same thing as the "agreement end date".

Just wanted to let everyone know what RPA interpret the "action end date" to mean.

For me, in Autumn 2027, this would mean trying to get wheat drilled after 1st Nov, which is a non starter. So I won't take up the SFI offer when it comes through.

I suppose the alternative is to accept the agreement offer, but then hope SFI continues and I can have a new agreement and rotate the legume fallow at an earlier date. I'd need to be lucky that the rules would allow this in autumn 2027.

Alternatively I put the 2026/27 legume fallow in a field which will go spring cropping. Feasible, but not what I really wanted to do.

Back to the drawing board for my SFI application. Or, more likely, reapply in late summer 2025, and hope they get the application process streamlined by then.

 

[Regenerator1]

Good idea.. If the NUM3 end date is August 15th just like CS AB15 then you will be able to plant wheat by October... Looks like you missed the 2024 SFI boat like everyone else barr a few hundred..

 

[Muddyroads]

Could you not put a spring cereal in instead?

 

[Grass And Grain]

Could you not put a spring cereal in instead?

Difficult on heavy land, and on average we'd lose 1t/acre of yield and probably £20/t for barley Vs wheat (we can't grow malting barley on our land). So not ideal.

In final year of SFI I could rotate the legume fallow to some sand land which we always spring crop. Need to give it some thought how that fits in with rest of our rotational plans. But it will leave me without legume fallow as my planned break crop on the heavier ground in year 3 of the SFI.

Another thought is to start another agreement in Sept 2025, and use that legume fallow. It starts to get a bit complex!

 

[Oilseed]

The start date for these agreements should be the beginning of the month following the date the application was put in. I have now lost 2 months income on my application.

 

[Regenerator1]

Difficult on heavy land, and on average we'd lose 1t/acre of yield and probably £20/t for barley Vs wheat (we can't grow malting barley on our land). So not ideal.

In final year of SFI I could rotate the legume fallow to some sand land which we always spring crop. Need to give it some thought how that fits in with rest of our rotational plans. But it will leave me without legume fallow as my planned break crop on the heavier ground in year 3 of the SFI.

Another thought is to start another agreement in Sept 2025, and use that legume fallow. It starts to get a bit complex!

Its pretty simple.. if you want to do AB15 so desperately (and i can't understand why you would want to?? Are you mad..) then just start an agreement every 15th August in SFI just like your very poor cousins in CS have been doing for years?? Dancing to RPA and DEFRA will only lead to disapointment in the course of time sadly....

 

[Grass And Grain]

Its pretty simple.. if you want to do AB15 so desperately (and i can't understand why you would want to?? Are you mad..) then just start an agreement every 15th August in SFI just like your very poor cousins in CS have been doing for years?? Dancing to RPA and DEFRA will only lead to disapointment in the course of time sadly....

Might have to do that. I struggle financially or agronomically to justify growing OSR or beans instead of legume fallow. Answers on a postcard if you've got any better paying options.

 

[Grass And Grain]

The start date for these agreements should be the beginning of the month following the date the application was put in. I have now lost 2 months income on my application.

Same here. 2 months lost and now looking at an unworkable start date. So effectively a year lost.

 

[Regenerator1]

Might have to do that. I struggle financially or agronomically to justify growing OSR or beans instead of legume fallow. Answers on a postcard if you've got any better paying options.

I cant do that today.. but when i work it out i will let you know loads of us are struggling to justify bread wheat too this yr... chose your executioner £300 to wildwild partyfarm or £90 delivered to Egypt. Per Tonne....extreme choices really

 

[DrWazzock]

Sent in a querie to RPA about SFI.

I applied for CNUM3 (legume fallow). I was hoping for a start date of 1st Sept, but they haven't got application processed, so possibly looking at a start date of 1st Nov.

For CNUM3, the prescription says you've to keep/maintain the option until "the action's end date". I didn't know if this meant "agreement end date", or say end of summer when you might normally think about destroying legume fallow and re-establishing.

Anyway, RPA have confirmed that "action end date" is the same thing as the "agreement end date".

Just wanted to let everyone know what RPA interpret the "action end date" to mean.

For me, in Autumn 2027, this would mean trying to get wheat drilled after 1st Nov, which is a non starter. So I won't take up the SFI offer when it comes through.

I suppose the alternative is to accept the agreement offer, but then hope SFI continues and I can have a new agreement and rotate the legume fallow at an earlier date. I'd need to be lucky that the rules would allow this in autumn 2027.

Alternatively I put the 2026/27 legume fallow in a field which will go spring cropping. Feasible, but not what I really wanted to do.

Back to the drawing board for my SFI application. Or, more likely, reapply in late summer 2025, and hope they get the application process streamlined by then.

I think they’ve given wrong advice.
Action end dates aren’t the same as agreement end dates. It states somewhere that actions might have to continue beyond the end of the agreement to ensure the aims of the action are met.
Let’s say my agreement starts in Nov 24 and I’ve applied for NUM3. If I’ve not drilled it already I’ll have to drill it in the spring 2025. This means that I can’t destroy and must maintain the agreed area of NUM3 till spring 28, that’s so it provides 3 winters if cover and 3 summers of flowers and stuff.
Bird seed is another good example. You have to essentially leave it to do its job for 3 cycles no matter when your SFI agreement ends.
I’ve highlighted this difficulty from the start but nobody took much notice. If common sense and good faith is applied it makes sense we deliver the action in its entirety no matter what the agreement start and end date but trying to define it with rules and regs is a minefield. Inspection with accuracy will be complex.
It’s all rather a pity as actually I’m quite in favour of many SFI options, though there could be better ones, like and extensively grazed one year leguminous mixed cover/fallow. I believe we wouldn’t have these time phase overlap problems and need for constant adjustment if applications were retrospective annually maybe even at only fixed date if the year as every other scheme has been to date for very good reasons.

 

[DrWazzock]

I too am not applying till next spring at the earliest as it’s only now that I know how much autumn crop area I’ve drilled and what our likely sheep numbers will be at lambing. It’s a nightmare trying to predict area available for options so far ahead. Very glad I’ve held off applying so far. Might even never apply as I’ve better commercial uses for some of the land like shooting strips and grazing which will still begs for the environment.

 

[DrWazzock]

PS - there’s much confusion over terminology.
To me agreement end date is on the 3 year anniversary of the agreement acceptance date.
They are saying the agreement end date is at the action end date necessary to deliver the aims of the action. That’s kind of right but messy.
What the arent saying or shouldn’t be saying is that action end date is in the 3 year anniversary of the agreement acceptance date. That contradicts the written advice they give in the following doc.

 

[DrWazzock]

Sustainable Farming Incentive scheme: expanded offer for 2024

Get paid to manage land sustainably to benefit the environment and support food production: find out if your land is eligible, select and apply for SFI actions.

www.gov.uk

Read the HTML doc.
Action end date defines when the agreement ends. That’s messy but it’s what they saying.
They are certainly not saying that action end date is defined by agreement end date. They’ve advised you wrongly. They’ve got their knickers in a twist.
Action end date dictates agreement end date.
The three year anniversary of agreement acceptance does not define action and date.
Action end date is when the aims of the action have been achieved regardless of when agreement acceptance was.
Anything else would be shortchanging the taxpayer.

 

[Grass And Grain]

Sustainable Farming Incentive scheme: expanded offer for 2024

Get paid to manage land sustainably to benefit the environment and support food production: find out if your land is eligible, select and apply for SFI actions.

www.gov.uk

Read the HTML doc.
Action end date defines when the agreement ends. That’s messy but it’s what they saying.
They are certainly not saying that action end date is defined by agreement end date. They’ve advised you wrongly. They’ve got their knickers in a twist.
Action end date dictates agreement end date.
The three year anniversary of agreement acceptance does not define action and date.
Action end date is when the sims if the action have been achieved regardless of when agreement acceptance was.

Thanks for link. I've found the definitions. See screenshot.

So it looks like it will depend what they say in the offer (what they write down as the action end date for the CNUM3 legume fallow).

I've also got some low input grassland. That will have an action end date same as agreement end date. But let's see what the say about the legume fallow. It could be that they give 31st August 2027 as the legume fallow action end date or maybe they'll say 31st Oct .

I see what you mean about things like winter bird food. You could have an agreement starting date of 1st Nov, but you'd be expected to keep the winter bird food until (is it the) end of Feb.

 

[Grass And Grain]

Thanks for link. I've found the definitions. See screenshot.

So it looks like it will depend what they say in the offer (what they write down as the action end date for the CNUM3 legume fallow).

I've also got some low input grassland. That will have an action end date same as agreement end date. But let's see what the say about the legume fallow. It could be that they give 31st August 2027 as the legume fallow action end date or maybe they'll say 31st Oct .

I see what you mean about things like winter bird food. You could have an agreement starting date of 1st Nov, but you'd be expected to keep the winter bird food until (is it the) end of Feb.

So the Agreement End Date could be more than 3 years after your Start Date.

 

[DrWazzock]

It concerns me a bit that they are trying to predict action end dates in the agreement document. Surely that depends on when, during the first 12 months of the agreement the option is drilled. If I apply for cnum3 in Jan I might drill it in the spring or late summer which surely affects the action end date but isn’t known at the time of agreement acceptance.

 

[DrWazzock]

So the Agreement End Date could be more than 3 years after your Start Date.

Absolutely. The agreement end date is on the date when the aims of every action have been delivered.(e.g. 3 winters of bird seed) even if that goes beyond the 3 year anniversary of the agreement acceptance date. Some SFI options are 5 year anyway. With the possibility of concurrent SFI agreements it’s going to get very messy. Let’s hope the IT system and the inspectorate can cope!

 

[Grass And Grain]

Absolutely. The agreement end date is on the date when the aims of every action have been delivered.(e.g. 3 winters of bird seed) even if that goes beyond the 3 year anniversary of the agreement acceptance date. Some SFI options are 5 year anyway. With the possibility of concurrent SFI agreements it’s going to get very messy. Let’s hope the IT system and the inspectorate can cope!

If you ask me anything, SFI is a beurocratic mess and DEFRA are responsible for it.

 

[DrWazzock]

I’m not bright enough to know how this could be made easier. But probably it would be better if we each had an “account” with each option having its own individual agreement.
Personally I think we will see a breakdown of the system into some kind of Soviet style central command and control disaster but I digress.

 

[farmerm]

Could you not put a spring cereal in instead?

Could and should are not one and the same…