Advice for Son Before Returning Home to Farm

[Boysground]

That’s a good plan @Nathan818. I can only agree with what others have said, don’t do it yet. Travel and learn everything you can from others 1st. You will be a better farmer for it, I didn’t and it is a big regret. My Son did 2 years in Canada dairy farming before he came home, he learnt more than he ever would have here.

The only other thing i would suggest is some sort of education in the finance side of the business. The computer with the accounts on it is the most important part of the business.

Bg

 

[Kiwi Pete]

This will be a bit of a long post so here goes. As title says I'm planning on returning to family farm but want your advice on what contract/agreement I need to have in place to make transition into the business and further down the line succession go smoothly.

BACKGROUND
I'm Nathan, 20, currently on placement at uni but planning to return home to work on the family dairy farm with my dad in the next couple of years. We milk about 130 cows on around 150 acres (100 owned) in the west of NI. For anyone interested the system is Ayr calving, fully housed on robots, high input high output, do all our own tractor work (slurry, wagon silage etc). Dad is still young at 47 and in good health but is currently the only one on the farm, other than some weekend help from family. I'm the eldest of 4 and have always been the farmer out of us. Dad has made it clear that if I want to farm then he would love to work with me, and I know he will be very open to involving me in the business formally, arranging succession planning and is open to new ideas and giving me responsibility. He came home to farm after college himself and my granda essentially handed him the reins, which had a very positive impact on the business and his thoughts on succession. I should maybe also point out that I've been working on the farm for extended periods of time before during holidays and weekends, I've been a part of business meetings, future planning decisions and have had management input. We're well used to working with each other and dad has made a point to pay me a wage whenever I've been working for a stint so the farm currently owes me nothing and I owe it nothing.

I've heard many horror stories on here about working with family and succession issues, so even though I know it won't be a problem with dad I thought it best to write up a bit of an initial agreement for when I have a proper conversation with him about returning to the business. Just a couple of points to go through with him about what I require on a business and personal level to make this work for me. This is what I want your advice on.

AGREEMENT
1. Sensible wage including benefits
2. Father and son to treat each other with respect as business partners and involve in all business decisions and meetings from the start
3. Son to become equal partner over/in 5 years
4. Succession plan to be agreed and discussed openly with all partners and siblings every 5 years to ensure long term viability of farm business.
5. Meetings with consultant/bank manager/solicitor at start to discuss business direction and best way to structure partnership going forward

These are the main things I could think of myself that I feel would help the process but I haven't thought that long about each of them so am open to suggestions of other points to discuss or changes to be made. Let me know any more general advice or tips you would have for someone going through my situation or if you have any questions for me I'll see what I can do. Thanks all

How bloody good !

I am impressed by your foresight and desire to "do it right"

Think most of my thoughts will have been covered but I really had to comment on your maturity and good sense you'll do well

 

[DrWazzock]

Ultimately all that will matter is the law, especially when other siblings and their spouses come for a share out years down the line.
You should be formally included in a partnership with your dad and maybe mother with a written up partnership agreement. That way you can build capital in the firm though not necessarily a share of the land which you need to be mindful will probably be equally divided amongst you and your siblings one day hopefully a long time from now. A partnership agreement is essential IMO and accounts should be made up annually to show profit split amongst partners and added to their capital accounts. That way you aren’t working for nothing or have zero stake in the business like an employee.

 

[ImLost]

If you are going to be paying your siblings out, agree the value at which you will be paying them out now and get it in writing, before you increase the value of the farm (which you should be).

 

[DaveGrohl]

I’d echo others’ advice not to rush back at the first opportunity unless you’ve made your mind up and are 100% happy with it. You’re clearly an intelligent chap from your posts on here though. But it’s a big world out there and there’s much to learn and experience.

 

[lloyd]

Have you had a family meeting with the other siblings and parents all together
for complete transparency?

 

[Still Farming]

Maybe if he goes off somewhere one of the others might step in?

And all the cards that look good now, will be out of the window and you never come back???
Funnier things happen ?

 

[fgc325j]

This will be a bit of a long post so here goes. As title says I'm planning on returning to family farm but want your advice on what contract/agreement I need to have in place to make transition into the business and further down the line succession go smoothly.

BACKGROUND
I'm Nathan, 20, currently on placement at uni but planning to return home to work on the family dairy farm with my dad in the next couple of years. We milk about 130 cows on around 150 acres (100 owned) in the west of NI. For anyone interested the system is Ayr calving, fully housed on robots, high input high output, do all our own tractor work (slurry, wagon silage etc). Dad is still young at 47 and in good health but is currently the only one on the farm, other than some weekend help from family. I'm the eldest of 4 and have always been the farmer out of us. Dad has made it clear that if I want to farm then he would love to work with me, and I know he will be very open to involving me in the business formally, arranging succession planning and is open to new ideas and giving me responsibility. He came home to farm after college himself and my granda essentially handed him the reins, which had a very positive impact on the business and his thoughts on succession. I should maybe also point out that I've been working on the farm for extended periods of time before during holidays and weekends, I've been a part of business meetings, future planning decisions and have had management input. We're well used to working with each other and dad has made a point to pay me a wage whenever I've been working for a stint so the farm currently owes me nothing and I owe it nothing.

I've heard many horror stories on here about working with family and succession issues, so even though I know it won't be a problem with dad I thought it best to write up a bit of an initial agreement for when I have a proper conversation with him about returning to the business. Just a couple of points to go through with him about what I require on a business and personal level to make this work for me. This is what I want your advice on.

AGREEMENT
1. Sensible wage including benefits
2. Father and son to treat each other with respect as business partners and involve in all business decisions and meetings from the start
3. Son to become equal partner over/in 5 years
4. Succession plan to be agreed and discussed openly with all partners and siblings every 5 years to ensure long term viability of farm business.
5. Meetings with consultant/bank manager/solicitor at start to discuss business direction and best way to structure partnership going forward

These are the main things I could think of myself that I feel would help the process but I haven't thought that long about each of them so am open to suggestions of other points to discuss or changes to be made. Let me know any more general advice or tips you would have for someone going through my situation or if you have any questions for me I'll see what I can do. Thanks all

My advice is before travelling/ getting a job farming somewhere else/ broadening your horizons - all 24 carat advice, find out if your father is paying all he can into
a pension scheme. It'll be better alround if , when he comes to handing the reins over, he'll have a good , independant income, and not reliant on the farm.
Because - to be honest - milking 130 + cows will only provide a decent income for 1 family.

 

[Happy hillbily]

Not read all the replys, but go away for 10 years or so, work for other people, in other places. Best thing you will do.

 

[Headless chicken]

having been in your position all the advise above is sensible. Things I would add

if there is no direct need to come home yet, ( i had a now or never situation which i don’t regret but it changes some outlooks


Go travelling and ear some decent cash
Buy a house near enough to the farm that
there quickly but far enough away that you can switch off a bit.
Find yourself a partner - people aren’t designed to live alone and it’s a lot harder to do when your tied to the farm or the alarm clock
Get yourself some cash reserves
Seriously consider training as a trade that can bring in cash in the lean times or atleast has transferable skills.

money is far from everything but it certainly helps keeping the wheels greased if you have something to fall back on. Weddings, holidays, kids all cost a small fortune these days and you need to have a realistic idea of where the money is going to come from to pay these things if you come back to farm.

Also consider how/if/when your dad will retire and how you will cope with that. I’ve been extremely fortunate that my dad has given me the reins and if he could we be sailing off into the sunset. Fortunately for me he is very much still about for when the sh!t hits the fan but the transition to being a lone worker can be a difficult one.

 

[Sonoftheheir]

Not read all the replys, but go away for 10 years or so, work for other people, in other places. Best thing you will do.

In those 10 years he could be building up his own business, he’ll also be at his fittest. I’d say get back home and make a difference, but go and look at other farms all over the world and take any opportunities to learn from others.

 

[yin ewe]

If I were 20 again I'd travel further away and bed more women (well some at least).

Seriously though, if you don't want to travel get a part time job 3/4 days a week preferably outside of farming, the experience of meeting people from different walks of life will be far better for you than being tied to the farm at 20. I started on my home farm at 25 but had a full time job as dad was still fit. Still go to work a day a week as its an opportunity to get away from it all.

At 47 you're father is only just run in so you should take the opportunity to do your own thing for a while but still be about to help and be involved in the decision making.

Ps I still ask me da if we should cut the silage or not and he'll be 85 in April

 

[Zippy768]

All situations are unique to themselves.
Going away for 5/10 years, maybe dad might of had enough of "struggling " on his own. Might get to 50 and think "which way now?"
Equally you may have open and brilliant relationship with father - and I hope that is the case, makes things so much easier I'd imagine.
Either way 20 is still v young, even though u may think your an adult. I'm 39 and I'm not sure I'm an adult yet, christ knows what I was like at 20.

As complicated as it may be with 4 siblings and inheritance, at least there is no uncle and cousins to consider as well.
Advice would be very simple then........

 

[lloyd]

It might be a case of once Nathan is out the way on his 10 year study trip
one of the other siblings might take more of an interest and have taken charge.
On a positive side Nathan will have more qualifications and experience to gain
a better paid job in the free marketplace .

 

[Red Fred]

I was just chatting to my campervan lodger about similar matters as we are both 60ish. It occurred to me on a Farming Memories facebook page last night that in a way, I'm mentally stuck in 1987 which is when my travel plans went off the rails when dad died and rightly or wrongly I came back to the farm.
I have had an enjoyable time since, but my real experiences were going to college, travelling to the US and New Zealand and just living a normal outside life for a few years. After dad went, life rapidly became much smaller and predictable as I effectively became what he was after he left the excitement of the RAF and came home. I promised I wouldn't end up like that, but it just happens with the responsibility and the way time rolls past from season to season.

 

[BrianV]

I was just chatting to my campervan lodger about similar matters as we are both 60ish. It occurred to me on a Farming Memories facebook page last night that in a way, I'm mentally stuck in 1987 which is when my travel plans went off the rails when dad died and rightly or wrongly I came back to the farm.
I have had an enjoyable time since, but my real experiences were going to college, travelling to the US and New Zealand and just living a normal outside life for a few years. After dad went, life rapidly became much smaller and predictable as I effectively became what he was after he left the excitement of the RAF and came home. I promised I wouldn't end up like that, but it just happens with the responsibility and the way time rolls past from season to season.

To me the biggest shame of UK farming is the total lack of encouragement for young farmers, in fact current government policy with destocking, rewilding & in general cutting back on food production is speeding up the process as far as I can see, I left school at 16 & came home on the family farm & at that time I was lucky enough to have cousins & friends farming around that we could all rely on & compare the ups & downs of farming.
When my sons came home after either travelling or working elsewhere with good company things were already changing with far fewer of their age farming near by, now here in the UK I would worry for any youngster starting out on their farming career as there are very few young people farming & this can only get worse under present government directives.
One of the absolute joys of Switzerland is the amount of young people encouraged to be involved in farming in one way or other & any farming event is teaming with young people of all ages, I believe this is also encouraged in much of Europe.

Our terrible UK politicians seem obsessed with grinding UK farming into the ground & should be cursed for life for doing so in my opinion.

 

[Bogweevil]

Take up bursaries to further your education perhaps - there is a lot of support out there. Your college should be able to point you in the right direction.

 

[Nearly]

Travel, meet interesting people and break their hearts.
Find one that you don't want to break yours, preferably with a farm in the family and as few siblings as possible.

 

[Hooby Farmer]

Travel, meet interesting people and break their hearts.
Find one that you don't want to break yours, preferably with a farm in the family and as few siblings as possible.

And a good set of legs for clutching the 135

 

[BuskhillFarm]

Completely agree with what you said. Make sure the sibling thing is tied up especially if you’re not the oldest.
I worked out for 10 years before starting my own farm on my own away from what was an awkward pile of mispromises.
Doing it again i wouldn’t waste my time working for others and making them rich whilst setting yourself back.
Farmings an apprenticeship and loosing that 10 years of Dads help and knowledge + being at your fittest + not keeping up with farming practises has set me back, I’ve been farming 7ish years and nowhere near where I could have taken my business 10 years earlier.
Only thing working out has done for me is make me really appreciate farming