Ageing stock Bulls

[bert]

Obviously every bull is different but at what age do most of you consider a bull to be getting past it?

 

[M-J-G]

It's a bit like how long is a piece of string.

Some are done at 4, usually due to being seriously overfed for sales with bad feet, fatty liver and a general inability to process forage.

Others can be going strong into double figures. A bull that I sold who was Jan 2003 born, was just culled at the end of last year after having been outdoors on a hill farm every day since I sold him. He was still fit and could have worked on but had only 6 cows left on the farm that he could run with due to the number of daughters off him.

That said if you get close to double figures you are well over the average lifespan which I've been told is 5yo.

 

[tr250]

Think breed makes a difference too the smaller natives seem to last longer. we have two that are 8 both are fine but one is going fat this week as we dont want his hard calving anymore

 

[bert]

It's a bit like how long is a piece of string.

Some are done at 4, usually due to being seriously overfed for sales with bad feet, fatty liver and a general inability to process forage.

Others can be going strong into double figures. A bull that I sold who was Jan 2003 born, was just culled at the end of last year after having been outdoors on a hill farm every day since I sold him. He was still fit and could have worked on but had only 6 cows left on the farm that he could run with due to the number of daughters off him.

That said if you get close to double figures you are well over the average lifespan which I've been told is 5yo.

4 or 5 sounds far too young! we've got a Charolias that's 8 now and needs his feet trimming again but seems perfectly fine in every other way. Another bloke I know gets rid of them all around this age!

 

[49801]

When he's gotten too crackly, unable to perform or if there is a change needed due to breeding policy.
Age don't come into it IMO unless he's at risk of not making the final trip to the factory.

 

[M-J-G]

4 or 5 sounds far too young! we've got a Charolias that's 8 now and needs his feet trimming again but seems perfectly fine in every other way. Another bloke I know gets rid of them all around this age!

It does seem low, but I do hear a lot of injury and infertility stories from a lot of people about bulls, even young ones.

I suppose when you take into account that some bulls are injured or that are infertile and don't see a 2nd birthday. For every one of these another bull has to last to 8yo to average 5.

For an average of 6yo an old bull hast to last until 10yo to balance every bull that is culled at 2.

 

[endeavour]

Feet and legs are perhaps the bigest cause of culling ,too many people fail to recognise this basic fact when buying a bull unlike us he works standing on his back legs on uneven ground,not in a comfortable bed and barring accidents a bull who has not been overworked should last at least 7>8 years and more given the right treatment.

 

[topground]

[quote="endeavour, post: 279506, member:
unlike us he works standing on his back legs on uneven ground,not in a comfortable bed.[/quote]
Speak for yourself, a bit of variety in location never did any one any harm!

 

[Walterp]

Julie's best Limousin stock bull was killed under TB in 2013 - he was born in 2001, was still working well, throwing good heifers (had Broadmeadows Cannon as a g sire); I won't easily forget him chasing energetically after bulling heifers, before he was slaughtered.

We wouldn't hesitate to retain a good bull, regardless of age.

 

[endeavour]

Got a bad!!! and you should be so lucky!! knee!!!!!!!!!!

 

[M-J-G]

[quote="endeavour, post: 279506, member:
unlike us he works standing on his back legs on uneven ground,not in a comfortable bed.

Speak for yourself, a bit of variety in location never did any one any harm![/quote]
Don't tell us any more.

 

[M-J-G]

But it's true though!

 

[Gareth Bryson]

I would think that it would be better to change bulls sooner rather than later because of the genetic improvement of stock in a period of years. maybe the life time of a bull is too short a time to consider this but in a current climate every extra pound you can make due to better DLWG or feed conversion is needed, I would imagine it is worth taking into account.

 

[GTB]

I think most bulls get moved on because of their daughters coming through the herd rather than their age. We had a twelve year old Sim a few years back which would have done another year or two if he hadn't become so grumpy. Anything he could break or bend.....

 

[Jock]

I would think that it would be better to change bulls sooner rather than later because of the genetic improvement of stock in a period of years. maybe the life time of a bull is too short a time to consider this but in a current climate every extra pound you can make due to better DLWG or feed conversion is needed, I would imagine it is worth taking into account.

Can see what you are saying but wouldn't think that in the absence of other reasons it would be a decider in whether to change a good bull after 4 or 5 years use.

Genetic improvement can't be as rapid as all that if a Simmental Bull by a sire born in 1971 can win the Championship at Stirling in 2010.
Sold for decent money too, so not as if it was just the one man that rated him.

 

[CharcoalWally]

I would think that it would be better to change bulls sooner rather than later because of the genetic improvement of stock in a period of years. maybe the life time of a bull is too short a time to consider this but in a current climate every extra pound you can make due to better DLWG or feed conversion is needed, I would imagine it is worth taking into account.

A good old stock bull still fit and capable should be held on to as long as you have any significant amount of work for him. If it's a great bull leaving great daughters then you'll only have him once , and you want as many of those great daughters in the herd so that his genetics are still working for you long after he's gone.

What you say Gareth is only true if your given breed is progressing , and sad to say , the Simmental offering of bulls in Stirling last Oct. hardly represented a breed flying forward.

My oldest bull was put down due to old age in 2010. He was 13 at the time and his daughters have been very influential in my herd. What was in the market last Oct. wasn't fit to lick his boots and I would not have thought it wise to discard him at 6 and replace him with a worse bull.

 

[Willy A]

I would think that it would be better to change bulls sooner rather than later because of the genetic improvement of stock in a period of years. maybe the life time of a bull is too short a time to consider this but in a current climate every extra pound you can make due to better DLWG or feed conversion is needed, I would imagine it is worth taking into account.

I use AI for genetic improvement and my old proven easy calving LIM bull will be here as long as he can do the job.
Every time you change a bull it costs money and you have a year to worry what sort of calve you will get.

 

[M-J-G]

Can see what you are saying but wouldn't think that in the absence of other reasons it would be a decider in whether to change a good bull after 4 or 5 years use.

Genetic improvement can't be as rapid as all that if a Simmental Bull by a sire born in 1971 can win the Championship at Stirling in 2010.
Sold for decent money too, so not as if it was just the one man that rated him.

I assume you mean Anchor? It's a shame he had to travel all the way to Stirling to end up a mile or two down the road from where he was bred! Not sure if he's so popular now, have heard of some horrid calving stories, which is surprising as his Austrian fleckvieh sire, Siegfried was renown for being amongst the easiest calving bulls in the breed. I have used a couple of Siegfried sons with good results, but Anchor is too small and arsey for me to be able to sell locally.

 

[Jock]

I assume you mean Anchor? It's a shame he had to travel all the way to Stirling to end up a mile or two down the road from where he was bred! Not sure if he's so popular now, have heard of some horrid calving stories, which is surprising as his Austrian fleckvieh sire, Siegfried was renown for being amongst the easiest calving bulls in the breed. I have used a couple of Siegfried sons with good results, but Anchor is too small and arsey for me to be able to sell locally.

Does seem a bit daft him going all the way to Stirling and back but then again if I bred a bull that I thought capable of winning at Stirling and putting him on sale to a larger audience than locally I think I might be tempted.

I think it's just the odd really good one that particular breeder brings over the water. Think he had the reserve Simmental a couple of years ago and won the Charolais title at Perth a few years back too but certainly don't see him over for all the sales.

 

[Ashtree]

My 2001 Charolais, son of CF52 Doonally New, was retired in fat condition just last month.
Sad to see him go.
Weighed in a mere 1125kgs.