Agricultural Property Relief being actively looked at by Labour "Guardian"

gloria1

Member
The loss of APR relief would cause significant problems for land values ,farm bank borrowings and break up farms with many land sales hitting the market to pay Inheritance tax, This would be a massive problem for family farms having to find eye watering sums to stay in business and lessen the farm area.This new tax would surely be the biggest monetary hit to farming in living memory.

"One Labour memo, seen by the Guardian, was a briefing note that estimated increases to rates of CGT alone could generate £8bn for the Treasury in the long term.
There are also proposals to overhaul inheritance tax, with plans for a consultation that could launch in autumn.

These could include radical changes, such as scrapping or updating the rules on agricultural land and business relief.

HMRC could be instructed to prepare figures on a range of options next month, sources said. They would then go to the OBR, which would need 10 weeks to crunch the numbers and share its findings with the Treasury.
The preparatory work suggests a budget could come in early October, as soon as party conferences are complete.
Under the current CGT regime, profits from the sales of second homes or shares in businesses are taxed at a much lower rate than wages.
Some senior figures believe that being more open about plans to raise wealth taxes to transform public services would improve turnout among traditional Labour voters.
The tax options under consideration come amid growing criticism from experts about a “conspiracy of silence” over how the two main parties will afford to fund public services.
The Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) said Labour and the Conservatives had not been clear about how they planned to address the “very tight fiscal situation” facing the next government.
The inheritance tax option being looked at involves changes in the rules for the tax on agricultural land and other family businesses, which industry experts regard as “very significant”.
At present, a person can claim up to 100% relief on the inheritance of agricultural land if it is being actively farmed. That has led to concerns that farmland is being snapped up by wealthy people keen to avoid inheritance taxes, and this is driving up prices and shutting out small businesses and farmers.
Some in Labour want to scrap this as well as business relief, which allows a person to pass on a company or shares if it is unlisted with 100% tax relief.
Plans being considered contain a sliding scale of options to weigh up the likely gain for the exchequer, including capping the benefit from agricultural and business relief at £500,000 for each person, rather than scrapping it. In some instances, both forms of relief could be claimed, allowing for a cap of £1m for each person in effect.
This would still raise about £2.3bn by 2029-30, which would be at the end of the OBR’s forecast period if it was introduced in March next year, according to a paper published by the IFS in 2023. The same figure appears in one of the internal Labour documents seen by the Guardian.
Sources said wider changes were also being considered on gifts and inheritance tax. Currently, no inheritance tax is due on gifts if they are made by a person who lives for more than seven years after the gifts are made."

 

serf

Member
Location
warwickshire
The loss of APR relief would cause significant problems for land values ,farm bank borrowings and break up farms with many land sales hitting the market to pay Inheritance tax, This would be a massive problem for family farms having to find eye watering sums to stay in business and lessen the farm area.This new tax would surely be the biggest monetary hit to farming in living memory.

"One Labour memo, seen by the Guardian, was a briefing note that estimated increases to rates of CGT alone could generate £8bn for the Treasury in the long term.
There are also proposals to overhaul inheritance tax, with plans for a consultation that could launch in autumn.

These could include radical changes, such as scrapping or updating the rules on agricultural land and business relief.

HMRC could be instructed to prepare figures on a range of options next month, sources said. They would then go to the OBR, which would need 10 weeks to crunch the numbers and share its findings with the Treasury.
The preparatory work suggests a budget could come in early October, as soon as party conferences are complete.
Under the current CGT regime, profits from the sales of second homes or shares in businesses are taxed at a much lower rate than wages.
Some senior figures believe that being more open about plans to raise wealth taxes to transform public services would improve turnout among traditional Labour voters.
The tax options under consideration come amid growing criticism from experts about a “conspiracy of silence” over how the two main parties will afford to fund public services.
The Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) said Labour and the Conservatives had not been clear about how they planned to address the “very tight fiscal situation” facing the next government.
The inheritance tax option being looked at involves changes in the rules for the tax on agricultural land and other family businesses, which industry experts regard as “very significant”.
At present, a person can claim up to 100% relief on the inheritance of agricultural land if it is being actively farmed. That has led to concerns that farmland is being snapped up by wealthy people keen to avoid inheritance taxes, and this is driving up prices and shutting out small businesses and farmers.
Some in Labour want to scrap this as well as business relief, which allows a person to pass on a company or shares if it is unlisted with 100% tax relief.
Plans being considered contain a sliding scale of options to weigh up the likely gain for the exchequer, including capping the benefit from agricultural and business relief at £500,000 for each person, rather than scrapping it. In some instances, both forms of relief could be claimed, allowing for a cap of £1m for each person in effect.
This would still raise about £2.3bn by 2029-30, which would be at the end of the OBR’s forecast period if it was introduced in March next year, according to a paper published by the IFS in 2023. The same figure appears in one of the internal Labour documents seen by the Guardian.
Sources said wider changes were also being considered on gifts and inheritance tax. Currently, no inheritance tax is due on gifts if they are made by a person who lives for more than seven years after the gifts are made."

It'll be fine , neilo, Dr wazzock & Co say so 🤔
 

serf

Member
Location
warwickshire
Socialism here we come.
Private property of all types will be up for grabs to fund Labours ‘levelling up’.
Levelling up = anyone with wealth or business sense will leave the UK.
1970’s all over again.

Who will oppose them in Parliament?
’ They will own nothing and be happy ‘ - quiz question, who said that?
Yep , history repeating it's self , at the time everyone said Labour would never get in all again because of the carnage ,

Now that's all forgotten we'll have to go through it again !
Just hope the fÜkers implode before they can do to much damage .
 
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Jackov Altraids

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon
Everybody needs to understand the abuse of the term 'farmer'.
The conservatives couldn't care les about farmers. They look after the interests of the wealthy, many of which own land.
Look how SFI has been engineered to the benefit of that demographic.
But they are very happy to rollout the plight of the genuine small farmer in this instance to protect everyone else's interests.

There is massive scope to stop tax avoidance which would actually benefit agriculture without affecting family farms.
 

spin cycle

Member
Location
north norfolk
before farmers all rush off voting reform and putting lib dems in by splitting tory vote.....have you seen labour's iht proposals

just sayin

was reading earlier rachael reeves on about capping apr at £500k with nil rate thingy extending to £1million.......remember though not just land but buildings to

my point was really aimed at farming 'reform voters' whom ,i speculate, will include many owner occupiers.......if reform lets the lib dem candidate win?,,,,,is that mp gonna stand up in parliament and argue against?

labour's point is that land is being bought to avoid iht by investors and thats fair.....so this could bring down land prices which would be good.....unless of course you're heavily leveraged and the banks get nervous

in fairness i'm on a lotta meds....can't remember where i read it and am just back from getting some of my sheep back into a paddock a neighbour gave me after his last pet sheep died.....20 years this paddock held his sheep.....my lot find a way out in 3 days 😭 :bag:

i called it yesterday on election thread....just sayin :bag:

We are on a roll,neighbouring farmer has REFORM posters up on the roadside !!!

I shall be casting my vote for "The Reform Party" on 4th July. All I need is a safe country for my family,looking at Londonistan only Nigel & others can reverse the tide.Norfolk and Reform are rolling. Local polls predicting Net Zero conservatives after election day.

i've no enthusiasm for tories but are you really going to let a lib dem in?
 

Burrell Road Loco

Member
Arable Farmer
Apparently nobody, but someone did write about it.
Wikipedia is your friend…….if you believe it. :cool:
Well researched my friend.
Whatever your view, evidence seems to be mounting in my view, especially when you look at most of the developed worlds prominent mainstream political leaders,
The shower of shxte political options we seem to have here, have finally made some of us British people, who are sick of the continual erosion of our nation, question what we are told.
Lets just hope that enough of us can lodge a protest vote and create enough noise, such as in Europe, to wake up the silent majority.
 

soapsud

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Dorset
Everybody needs to understand the abuse of the term 'farmer'.
The conservatives couldn't care les about farmers. They look after the interests of the wealthy, many of which own land.
Look how SFI has been engineered to the benefit of that demographic.
But they are very happy to rollout the plight of the genuine small farmer in this instance to protect everyone else's interests.

There is massive scope to stop tax avoidance which would actually benefit agriculture without affecting family farms.
Talk us through it?

Here's two small bones to start us off.

Hypothetical 1.
Say a typical mixed farm of 500 acres owned by an elderly farmer has had a bad winter, poor yields over the last few years and applies and is accepted to get 100% SFI at approx £300 per acre (before the March Cap was hastily put in place). So he sells off his stock. Establishment and maintenance is 40%. That means 500 x 300 - 40% = £90,000 for non-productive greenwashing.

Hypothetical 2.
Same farm run and owned by an elderly farmer but he has only his tapering off BPS and nothing else. After input and running costs he's getting an average of £190 per acre return.

Now, if you were a bean counter working in the IFS or the OBR, how do you decide who gets clobbered for IHT?

The one who follows government support and yet does very little earned production (biomass and wildlife permitting) or the trad farmer producing food and working 50+ hours a week?
 

jendan

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Northumberland
Talk us through it?

Here's two small bones to start us off.

Hypothetical 1.
Say a typical mixed farm of 500 acres owned by an elderly farmer has had a bad winter, poor yields over the last few years and applies and is accepted to get 100% SFI at approx £300 per acre (before the March Cap was hastily put in place). So he sells off his stock. Establishment and maintenance is 40%. That means 500 x 300 - 40% = £90,000 for non-productive greenwashing.

Hypothetical 2.
Same farm run and owned by an elderly farmer but he has only his tapering off BPS and nothing else. After input and running costs he's getting an average of £190 per acre return.

Now, if you were a bean counter working in the IFS or the OBR, how do you decide who gets clobbered for IHT?

The one who follows government support and yet does very little earned production (biomass and wildlife permitting) or the trad farmer producing food and working 50+ hours a week?
I would think neither will get clobbered.
 

BRB John

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Aberdeenshire
It's a difficult one.
Personally I don't like inheritance tax I think we've been taxed enough in life as it is
But....
We are in a sh!t ton of debt thanks to the sheer incompetence of those in charge so we all have to pay so those with the most should probably pay the most and anyone who tries to leave it's double...

If it brings the price of land down then surely that can only be a good thing...
I wouldn't mind 1970's land prices...
 

Farmer_Joe

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
The North
It's a difficult one.
Personally I don't like inheritance tax I think we've been taxed enough in life as it is
But....
We are in a sh!t ton of debt thanks to the sheer incompetence of those in charge so we all have to pay so those with the most should probably pay the most and anyone who tries to leave it's double...

If it brings the price of land down then surely that can only be a good thing...
I wouldn't mind 1970's land prices...
its difficult,

around me there's one old kid whos nearly 80 who has a few cows, in most directions the farms have been bought up by retired wealthy people with bits let out, they will have been claiming bps even though their not active farmers, farm from it and have certainly bought them to avoid tax, pass wealth untaxed.

This has completely made land prices crazy vs the actual return from farming, really apr should be abolished and come under the bpr rules with the land being part of the farming business/assets, also farming having to be you main income?

Im not sure but as it is its clearly abused by wealthy people, at genuine farmers' cost
 

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