AHDB fungicide strategy 2022 interesting

[willy]

For some reason I can't post the video if someone can please do. Go to about 48 mins in and there is a farmer called Angus from Yorkshire who Is not using fungicides but concentrating on plant health and nutrition.
I find this very interesting as we did some on farm trials and saw very similar. With a spend of less than £60 per ha on nutrition and no fungicides and saw no noticbke difference over fungicide treated from my combine.

Any one else seeing this.?

 

[Hindsight]

For some reason I can't post the video if someone can please do. Go to about 48 mins in and there is a farmer called Angus from Yorkshire who Is not using fungicides but concentrating on plant health and nutrition.
I find this very interesting as we did some on farm trials and saw very similar. With a spend of less than £60 per ha on nutrition and no fungicides and saw no noticbke difference over fungicide treated from my combine.

Any one else seeing this.?

Which variety or varieties Willy?

 

[Wombat]

I cannot find the video but could it be Af salers on here?

 

[ajd132]

Angus gowthorpe? Can you send a link please?
is it just nutrition or is he using all the expensive edaphos/Aiva(unregistered?) products that are getting popular now amongst all the regen guys?

 

[willy]

Angus gowthorpe? Can you send a link please?
is it just nutrition or is he using all the expensive edaphos/Aiva(unregistered?) products that are getting popular now amongst all the regen guys?

Which variety or varieties Willy?

I used gleam and skyscrapper
He used a blend I will post on here

 

[willy]

I used G&a crop nutrition pri es cheaper than Angus, but each to their own. On one trial what I did do and used revystar, plant health re brix and sap pH fell off a cliff after using revystar. Still yielded well but so did my nutrion only....

 

[willy]

He also will not use more than 150kg,ha of N as over this he says is negative to soil biology

 

[Secret Agronomist]

I've never seen any replicated results for this sort of stuff, only ever tramline trials. At the AHDB strategic farm they found a negative FINANCIAL benefit from including this stuff, but again only tramline trials. Thats not to say we shouldn't be looking at it but its needs scientific rigour, says the man who splashes seaweed everywhere.

 

[willy]

The problem is look at all the trials pushed by every single agrochemical company, they can always show you replicated trials results of their product outperforming their competitors. Also look at plant health and assess it from there. We use fungicides like the medical world use antibiotics and look where that is going.

 

[Secret Agronomist]

Need independent replicated trials, hint hint AHDB. Need to reduce fungicide use but need to maintain financial performance.

 

[Hindsight]

View attachment 1018044View attachment 1018045View attachment 1018044

I used gleam and skyscrapper
He used a blend I will post on here

Thank you. Not sure I am sufficiently confident to advise letting yellow rust go in a crop of Gleam down in the Fens near the sea wall. Suppose my collection of photos of sprayer misses doesn't help me.. Or does the nutrition stop the yellow rust starting.

 

[ajd132]

I do a lot of this stuff.
there is a growing group of ‘regen’ farmers (who I know quite well and get on with I will add) who now seem to be free advertising for edaphos/aiva and all say the same thing!

you can do this kind of thing much cheaper than these guys.
sadly edaphos have lost all credibility to me claiming to be a ‘regenerative’ agriculture agronomy company, there is a big push on sales as their sister company aiva supplies all the products they recommend. At a vast mark up to what you can buy.

some of this stuff definitely works, some of it is completely unproved. Also, just because ot doesn’t have ‘cide’ in the name doesn’t meant it isn’t bad.
Diamotaceous earth silicon many are using on fields is a grain store insecticide, orange oil kills worms, brewed ‘biology’ is used because of its fungicidal benefits but it’s not regulated, I’ve seen independant trials in the flesh where these biology brews have had a seriously negative affect on the soil biology, far worse than some tebuconazole.

 

[willy]

Thank you. Not sure I am sufficiently confident to advise letting yellow rust go in a crop of Gleam down in the Fens near the sea wall. Suppose my collection of photos of sprayer misses doesn't help me.. Or does the nutrition stop the yellow rust starting.

This is the thing nutrition needs to start in the autumn and don't say never to fungicides. But it's a bit like humans taking antibiotics as a insurance rather than a healthy diet as a first step.
Get mix of varieties with high yellow rust resistance to start with would be a good place to start I would think

But look at the mix of varieties he uses helps to stop the spread.

 

[willy]

I do a lot of this stuff.
there is a growing group of ‘regen’ farmers (who I know quite well and get on with I will add) who now seem to be free advertising for edaphos/aiva and all say the same thing!

you can do this kind of thing much cheaper than these guys.
sadly edaphos have lost all credibility to me claiming to be a ‘regenerative’ agriculture agronomy company, there is a big push on sales as their sister company aiva supplies all the products they recommend. At a vast mark up to what you can buy.

some of this stuff definitely works, some of it is completely unproved. Also, just because ot doesn’t have ‘cide’ in the name doesn’t meant it isn’t bad.
Diamotaceous earth silicon many are using on fields is a grain store insecticide, orange oil kills worms, brewed ‘biology’ is used because of its fungicidal benefits but it’s not regulated, I’ve seen independant trials in the flesh where these biology brews have had a seriously negative affect on the soil biology, far worse than some tebuconazole.

Ye sthe problem will be the big boys will buy up all the smaller nutrion based company's get a marketing team to make us believe we can't farm without their product and charge what they used to for fungicides but for nutrion instead.

 

[ajd132]

Ye sthe problem will be the big boys will buy up all the smaller nutrion based company's get a marketing team to make us believe we can't farm without their product and charge what they used to for fungicides but for nutrion instead.

I don’t think size of company makes any difference. A friends nutrition programme from aforementioned company I could do for £35/ha less just buying the stuff better, which really requires minimal effort.

 

[Hindsight]

This is the thing nutrition needs to start in the autumn and don't say never to fungicides. But it's a bit like humans taking antibiotics as a insurance rather than a healthy diet as a first step.
Get mix of varieties with high yellow rust resistance to start with would be a good place to start I would think

But look at the mix of varieties he uses helps to stop the spread.

Genetic resistance is indeed the correct starting point. There are current varieties with good resistance to Yellow Rust. But some farmer still choose for various reasons to grow those that have weaker resistance. And over time with rusts some genetics fail. We shall all have to reconsider genetic resistance when Tebuconazole loses approval, as the other alternatives are less good as eradicant and more expensive. Though we shall see with isopyram and solatenol.

I follow the nutrition comments with interest, as I do not understand the complexities, so am reading to learn. But just ponder if one is swapping one set of costs (fungicides) for another set of costs (nutrition). Though I appreciate there may be alternative motives for utilising nutrition than fungicides.

The market, possibly regulatory events and individual perceptions will drive changes, as was ever thus. Supply businesses will adapt to survive, as was ever thus. I can see government being interested and keen on nutrition rather than fungicides. Moves the industry towards a more quasi organic system. Probably less use of fossil fuels preparing the chemicals, although I am not familiar with the 'nutrition' and how it is made.

Interesting times.

 

[nonemouse]

This is the thing nutrition needs to start in the autumn and don't say never to fungicides. But it's a bit like humans taking antibiotics as a insurance rather than a healthy diet as a first step.
Get mix of varieties with high yellow rust resistance to start with would be a good place to start I would think

But look at the mix of varieties he uses helps to stop the spread.

Assuming it is Angus Gowthorpe, there is a lot more to it than spending more on nutrition and dropping the fungicide. He has introduced a very diverse rotation and gone big on low soil disturbance/direct drilling.
All interesting stuff, but don’t think you can take one aspect of it in isolation.

 

[ajd132]

This is the thing nutrition needs to start in the autumn and don't say never to fungicides. But it's a bit like humans taking antibiotics as a insurance rather than a healthy diet as a first step.
Get mix of varieties with high yellow rust resistance to start with would be a good place to start I would think

But look at the mix of varieties he uses helps to stop the spread.

Agree re nutrition.
I really like the concept of varietal blends however my experience of them is pretty bad.
Inherited a blend on a farm last year that’s been grown for a few years now. Not great varieties. Terrible bushel weights compared to single varieties and could not time anything because of different growth stages. When using much less fungicide timing is even more important and I struggled to get it anywhere near right. Nutrition was spot on according to novacrop sap testing (superior to tissue tests). Would like to try again with better varieties.
I know this kind of agronomy is the future, fungicides is just a treadmill more and more.
I am just trying to be devils advocate and honest of my experience of this stuff, as it’s basically impossible to find a negative word said about any of this stuff within the regenerative fraternity.

 

[ajd132]

Assuming it is Angus Gowthorpe, there is a lot more to it than spending more on nutrition and dropping the fungicide. He has introduced a very diverse rotation and gone big on low soil disturbance/direct drilling.
All interesting stuff, but don’t think you can take one aspect of it in isolation.

I actually think many of these guys are doing themselves a dis-service by always taking about these products they use as opposed to all the other great things they do on farm to improve soil etc

 

[willy]

Assuming it is Angus Gowthorpe, there is a lot more to it than spending more on nutrition and dropping the fungicide. He has introduced a very diverse rotation and gone big on low soil disturbance/direct drilling.
All interesting stuff, but don’t think you can take one aspect of it in isolation.

Agree it's not for people who think that just changing from fungicides will make plant health better blah blah blah.... If people want their hand holding they are going to be disappointed.