AHL2 - Winter Bird Food

[Hindsight]

Can you clarify the rules for small producers please?

Strangely, the exemption doesn't come up in your FAQs.

I am sure I have no question that other members of the forum would not also appreciate the answer too... there are a few here interested in more detail regards the small farmer exemption...


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1) what is the accepted yield figure from which one converts 92T into an area.

2) Plant varieties act 1997....

In this section, “small farmer” means—

(b)in a case where the material referred to in subsection (3) is used for propagating any other variety specified for the purpose of subsection (1), a farmer who grows that variety in an area no bigger than that which would be needed to produce 92 tonnes of cereals per harvest.]

Now my reading of the wording of the legislation is that this small farmer exemption applies per variety not per farm.... am I wrong?

3) does the exemption permit farm to farm exchanges if one or both parties are exempt from payment?

4) does the legislation need to catch up with farming realities in an SFI world....?

Ah, if my memory serves under the MacSharry Reforms a small farmer was excused Set Aside requirement under the AAPS (Arable Area Payments Scheme). This was defined at a yield of 6.25 t/ha thus 92 tonnes was 14.14 hectare of Arable land.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Olivia at BSPB here. Myself and other members of the team are happy to chat over the rules if you ever need clarification. You can call us on 01353 653209.

FAQ's can be found here: https://www.bspb.co.uk/faqs/farm-saved-seed/

From a young age I learnt that people prefer straight talking and things clearly stated so they know where they are, there is far to much you could do it like this but you don't have to in the guidelines
Like if you told a painter , you could paint my house pink or green but you don't have to , then punish him when he paints it purple
The whole thing is a nightmare for seed merchants and farmers alike ,

 

[Huno]

Can someone list the "21 varieties" on this thread please?

 

[Huno]

I might split my farm into 14 Ha units!!

 

[Hindsight]

Looks as though the NFU countryside adviser is putting a dampener on AHL2 sown in July after a previous crop. Following copied from April 2 NFU briefing

AHL2 – Arable winter bird food​

£853/ha

This is all about providing small seeds for birds during the winter hungry gap.

You are required to plant six different crops, with large, seeded crops excluded such as maize and giant sorghum. The mix can be chosen to suit your land. The mixes can be annual or last two years.

The Countryside Stewardship equivalent option suggests planting between mid-February and mid-June to get good results.

Did you know?​

Planting a winter bird food mix after harvest will not deliver small seeds for the winter period.

The plants will not have the opportunity to flower and set seed before winter arrives.

 

[Hindsight]

And she's not keen on Spring sown AHL1 followed by WInter Wheat.

AHL1 – Pollen and nectar mix​

£739/ha

The name of this action says exactly what it is trying to achieve – provide a mix of flowering plants from late spring and during the summer.

The basic requirement is that you must sow a grass-free seed mix containing at least six flower species. No single species must exceed 50% of the mix.

You can choose a seed mix to suit your land. The mix does need to contain two of the following common knapweed, musk mallow, oxeye daisy, wild carrot and yarrow.

Pollen and nectar mixes need to be planted into warm ground i.e. between May and mid-September. Mix longevity can be from two to five years. When the mix has run its course, SFI does allow you to change its location.

Did you know?​

If you plant pollen and nectar mix this spring and follow with a winter crop in September it is unlikely to meet the actions’ aims – it’s unlikely to flower this summer.

 

[Adeptandy]

Why doesn’t this surprise me from the NFU

 

[Hindsight]

And she doesn't like the idea of short summer fallow.

Many of the SFI arable actions are rotational, even when the norm is for the action to be in place for two years (for example, legume fallow NUM3). This flexibility is to allow the location of the action to change during the three-year SFI agreement.

 

[e3120]

Just trying to figure out NFU motivation

1. Worried about hungry birds/bees
2. Protecting farmers from financial disappointment
3. Putting out a warning shot on behalf of Defra
4. Acting under instruction of their paymasters (BRC)

???

 

[Steevo]

Looks as though the NFU countryside adviser is putting a dampener on AHL2 sown in July after a previous crop. Following copied from April 2 NFU briefing

AHL2 – Arable winter bird food​

£853/ha

This is all about providing small seeds for birds during the winter hungry gap.

You are required to plant six different crops, with large, seeded crops excluded such as maize and giant sorghum. The mix can be chosen to suit your land. The mixes can be annual or last two years.

The Countryside Stewardship equivalent option suggests planting between mid-February and mid-June to get good results.

Did you know?​

Planting a winter bird food mix after harvest will not deliver small seeds for the winter period.

The plants will not have the opportunity to flower and set seed before winter arrives.

"Planting a winter bird food mix after harvest will not deliver small seeds for the winter period." - stated like it is absolute fact.

Cue the rush for farmers to decide to broadcast the seeds into the standing crop pre-harvest. How long before they next piece of advice comes out stating that "plant" or "planting" is defined by placing the seeds directly into the soil and so the broadcasting the seeds into a standing crop in early or mid June will also not be considered likely to get good results?

 

[Hindsight]

Just trying to figure out NFU motivation

1. Worried about hungry birds/bees
2. Protecting farmer members from financial disappointment
3. Putting out a warning shot on behalf of Defra
4. Acting under instruction of their paymasters (BRC)

???

3&4 Jim Egan of Kings was on same game I thought.

 

[Steevo]

And she doesn't like the idea of short summer fallow.

Many of the SFI arable actions are rotational, even when the norm is for the action to be in place for two years (for example, legume fallow NUM3). This flexibility is to allow the location of the action to change during the three-year SFI agreement.

So just when the habitat has been established....and the wildlife have taken root.....the NFU are suggesting that farmers go through with a mower and cultivator and encourage those species enjoying their new habitat to up sticks and move to another field.

 

[alomy75]

Just trying to figure out NFU motivation

1. Worried about hungry birds/bees
2. Protecting farmers from financial disappointment
3. Putting out a warning shot on behalf of Defra
4. Acting under instruction of their paymasters (BRC)

???

Definitely not 1. In these times of inclusion and level playing fields I find it quite intriguing that it’s taken this long to hint that the loophole will be closed down.

 

[Hindsight]

Definitely not 1. In these times of inclusion and level playing fields I find it quite intriguing that it’s taken this long to hint that the loophole will be closed down.

Maybe Sir Mark Spencer MP has taken the Defra senior team to on side and explained what is happening on the ground as he is a farmer!

 

[Vader]

It’s an interesting question as to what is the truly natural diet of a truly native British bird.
I’d imagine grass seed mostly.
It also begs the question as to what bird numbers were like before cereal growing arrived on these shores. Has farming really caused a decline in numbers or did early farming methods with wastage cause a big rise in numbers of small seed eating birds which have now fallen back to natural prefarming levels as combines waste less and grain stores are better sealed.
Every time the RSPB moans about a decline in bird numbers it’s probably only a result of tidier farming not any kind of active thing we’ve done against the birds. Certainly we lost a lot of sparrows here when RT got fussy about the grain store and I think the bird flu has hammered them as well. Domestic cats cause huge losses as do raptors but never mind it’s £750 /ha so crack on.

Always thought same on bird numbers, but hard to find figures pre 70s

I remember as a kid masses of sparrows.
Grain stores were not bird proof and hundreds at a time would be feeding on the grain heap.
Now stores are bird proof.
So we're sparrow numbers a false high because of plenty of winter food on sheds, then once stores became more secure, numbers gone back to natural levels ?

 

[ollie989898]

Always thought same on bird numbers, but hard to find figures pre 70s

I remember as a kid masses of sparrows.
Grain stores were not bird proof and hundreds at a time would be feeding on the grain heap.
Now stores are bird proof.
So we're sparrow numbers a false high because of plenty of winter food on sheds, then once stores became more secure, numbers gone back to natural levels ?

Given that half the more persistent chemicals are now banned and given how the industry has changed in the last 50+ years, I can only conclude that bird numbers have little to do with agriculture. I'm happy to be proven wrong but it is like bees etc- there is something missing. Agriculture is just too easy to blame.

 

[DrWazzock]

Given that half the more persistent chemicals are now banned and given how the industry has changed in the last 50+ years, I can only conclude that bird numbers have little to do with agriculture. I'm happy to be proven wrong but it is like bees etc- there is something missing. Agriculture is just too easy to blame.

Nail on head.
Similar to the present day hysteria over air quality. When i was a kid everybody had a coal fire and all petrol contained lead. We were breathing in lead from exhaust fumes and God knows what else from the coal smoke. Now we are all going to die of ammonia poisoning unless we sheet down our muck heaps. Yet back in the 70’s everybody seemed healthier in a robust kind of way.

 

[ollie989898]

Nail on head.
Similar to the present day hysteria over air quality. When i was a kid everybody had a coal fire and all petrol contained lead. We were breathing in lead from exhaust fumes and God knows what else from the coal smoke. Now we are all going to die of ammonia poisoning unless we sheet down our muck heaps. Yet back in the 70’s everybody seemed healthier in a robust kind of way.

The air quality in the 50s-60s and 70s would have been dire because cars were all carburetted, had no catalytic converters and the UK burned coal for power and heat. Most of the resulting air pollution ended up in Scandinavia.

Still, I suppose fewer people, they didn't eat as much and folk were slimmer and had a lot more manual work?

 

[Vader]

Nail on head.
Similar to the present day hysteria over air quality. When i was a kid everybody had a coal fire and all petrol contained lead. We were breathing in lead from exhaust fumes and God knows what else from the coal smoke. Now we are all going to die of ammonia poisoning unless we sheet down our muck heaps. Yet back in the 70’s everybody seemed healthier in a robust kind of way.

Air quality....
Then everyone has scented candles and plug in air fresheners going in their homes all the time.

Went to a dinner party last year and had to leave after an hr. Had those plug in fresheners going and i started to feel ill with the smell. Felt OK again once left.
I can not go in shops that sell scented stuff, start to feel ill. How people can think its good to breath in all those chemicals I don't know.

Some candles even have warnings on them!

 

[Little squeak]

I'm just glad that it isn't the NFU who make the rules.