AHL2 - Winter Bird Food

[fieldfarmer]

Depends too much on where in the country,weather and soil type to work
i have had 12 years in stewardship with winter bird food planting after mid June does not work most years

defra loosened up the rules last year and then increased the rate this year
no one would have taken up the option before the rate went to over 800

defra and the farming industry would have lost billions from the budget over the next few years if the treasury had clawed back the likely underspend
£250 or more for wheat for a year would have cost the industry a massively reduced budget
all chancellers whatever party would have spent the money somewere else

So would you say what I'd done in that photo last year delivered the aims or not?

 

[Billboy1]

They will also limit the area in one parcel/field to 5 ha

there are other actions that earn more money in gross margin and less problems

What are they ?

 

[Billboy1]

They will also limit the area in one parcel/field to 5 ha

there are other actions that earn more money in gross margin and less problems

What are they

 

[Huno]

I Am sure that defra will clarify the rules on bird food and it will have to be more on the lines of stewardship Ab 9
2024/2025 defra draft proposals

and not allowed between an summer harvested crop and a spring crop

they should have set this out in the first place

Yes.. but Common Sense seems very restricted in that sector???

 

[fieldfarmer]

Because the money offered for this SFI option is the same as the CS option. They can’t allow it to be more profitable in SFI than CS.
Also it would favour the milder parts of England.

They chose that payment rate no one else, I'm farming on the edge of Dartmoor, and often put in shooting covers after WB, and often get the same cover.

 

[yellow belly]

They chose that payment rate no one else, I'm farming on the edge of Dartmoor, and often put in shooting covers after WB, and often get the same cover.

you have a good chance that it will work
but in the norther half of England from Lincolnshire to the Scottish border the chances are low

 

[alomy75]

So would you say what I'd done in that photo last year delivered the aims or not?

Whether you have or not is irrelevant really with all due respect; the point is that an option that is only possible for a certain few is hardly a level playing field for all and it’s fairly obvious that ‘double-cropping’ of options was never an intention. A bit like whole farms going into sfi was never an intention of the scheme…and look what’s happened there

 

[Huno]

They chose that payment rate no one else, I'm farming on the edge of Dartmoor, and often put in shooting covers after WB, and often get the same cover.

If you are already in SFI.. just enjoy the crazy cash for the next 3 yrs... everyone in CS will have to do it properly and feed the birds in the post nesting winter period otherwise you just feed birds in autumn to kill them in late Feb... aim achieved???

 

[fieldfarmer]

Whether you have or not is irrelevant really with all due respect; the point is that an option that is only possible for a certain few is hardly a level playing field for all and it’s fairly obvious that ‘double-cropping’ of options was never an intention. A bit like whole farms going into sfi was never an intention of the scheme…and look what’s happened there

I would say "whether or not" is very relevant, if I've deliverd the aims I should be paid as per my contract shouldn't I?
Should we remove the hedgerows and trees payment also then because that option isn't fair to some massive farms with their 300 acre fields and no trees.?

Edit to say,
my winter bird food will be planted in the next month or so on a block of overwinter stubble that was destined for winter beans, my comments are that the aims can and have been achieved after WB in some circumstances.

 

[fieldfarmer]

If you are already in SFI.. just enjoy the crazy cash for the next 3 yrs... everyone in CS will have to do it properly and feed the birds in the post nesting winter period otherwise you just feed birds in autumn to kill them in late Feb... aim achieved???

There's CS here also to prevent starvation until the summer flowering sfi kicks in so yes all year round aims achieved which surely is what they wanted all they wouldn't have set the payments at the levels they did.

 

[Huno]

There's CS here also to prevent starvation until the summer flowering sfi kicks in so yes all year round aims achieved which surely is what they wanted all they wouldn't have set the payments at the levels they did.

They were desperate for applicants and now they have loads of applicants they have backtracked... it is anything but SUSTAINABLE... and even at that price the profit margin was pitiful.. not even tempting...

 

[Huno]

They will also limit the area in one parcel/field to 5 ha

there are other actions that earn more money in gross margin and less problems

5 Ha per parcel is plenty... and winter feeding should be compulsory in the hungry late winter months or what is the point??

 

[alomy75]

I would say "whether or not" is very relevant, if I've deliverd the aims I should be paid as per my contract shouldn't I?
Should we remove the hedgerows and trees payment also then because that option isn't fair to some massive farms with their 300 acre fields and no trees.?

Edit to say,
my winter bird food will be planted in the next month or so on a block of overwinter stubble that was destined for winter beans, my comments are that the aims can and have been achieved after WB in some circumstances.

I think the point being made by @yellow belly was summed up in your final sentence; aims achieved in ‘some circumstances’. IF your winter barley is ready early and IF there’s enough moisture to make the bird food grow and IF you’ve got time and resource available to drill it at that time of year you might ‘get away with it’ is unlikely to feature in RPA guidance. Added to that the requirement to have a ‘calculated’ start date to make the whole thing work should be ringing all sorts of alarm bells to anyone who has dealt with the RPA before. Having said that; if you’re doing it already; fill your boots I say!

 

[DrWazzock]

I’ve warned before and I’ll warn again that these bird plots will cause an explosion in rural rat numbers and these will cause considerable problems for rural people.
But as usual all I hear from the big claimants and DEFRA is an eff you attitude which pretty much sums up where champagne ecologists priorities lie. Rural dwellers, productive farmers included are an obstacle to their dream of general rewilding and their obsession with increasing wildlife numbers vastly above what they are now at human expense in terms of taxation and inconvenience and even loss of productive livelihoods.
This will come back to bite the government.
Nobody need say they weren’t warned.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

Whether you have or not is irrelevant really with all due respect; the point is that an option that is only possible for a certain few is hardly a level playing field for all and it’s fairly obvious that ‘double-cropping’ of options was never an intention. A bit like whole farms going into sfi was never an intention of the scheme…and look what’s happened there

Farming isn't a level playing field though. Some have veg land and some have windswept rocky mountain.

If whole farms going into SFI wasn't the intention, then the scheme should have had limits built into it. Failing to do that is negligence.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

I’ve warned before and I’ll warn again that these bird plots will cause an explosion in rural rat numbers and these will cause considerable problems for rural people.
But as usual all I hear from the big claimants and DEFRA is an eff you attitude which pretty much sums up where champagne ecologists priorities lie. Rural dwellers, productive farmers included are an obstacle to their dream of general rewilding and their obsession with increasing wildlife numbers vastly above what they are now at human expense in terms of taxation and inconvenience and even loss of productive livelihoods.
This will come back to bite the government.
Nobody need say they weren’t warned.

Rats in fields aren't the same problem as rats in sheds.

Furthermore, owls and other raptors are far less likely to suffer from secondary poisoning than from rodents caught round buildings.

 

[DrWazzock]

Rats in fields aren't the same problem as rats in sheds.

Furthermore, owls and other raptors are far less likely to suffer from secondary poisoning than from rodents caught round buildings.

The exodus from the fieid to tge sheds/ gardens/ houses comes when the bird strip either runs out of seed or is ploughed up and moved. I’ve seen it. My cousin is a qualified pest controller and he’s seeing more of this in rural areas now having to use serious quantity of poisons increasing the chances of resistance.
Taxpayer funded vermin problem on its way. There’s nothing natural at all about growing alien crops to leave in fields.
We will see.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

The exodus from the fieid to tge sheds/ gardens/ houses comes when the bird strip either runs out of seed or is ploughed up and moved. I’ve seen it. My cousin is a qualified pest controller and he’s seeing more of this in rural areas now having to use serious quantity of poisons increasing the chances of resistance.
Taxpayer funded vermin problem on its way. There’s nothing natural at all about growing alien crops to leave in fields.
We will see.

Don't rats come into the sheds when the weather gets bad rather than when food runs out in the fields? And doesn't sugar beet have exactly the same effect as the problem you are predicting?

 

[Adeptandy]

I was hoping that if there’s more feed in the fields they might stay out there and keep out of the yard

 

[DrWazzock]

Yes there can be problems with sugar beet but these options are simply adding to the problem many times over. Two thousand years of husbandry and field hygiene down the pan at the stroke of a bureaucrats pen. They know best of course. Won’t be told. We will see. Probably affect the blue rinse rural retiree Tory grass roots hardest. We will see how keen they are on all this nonsense once ratty has moved in.