Air source heat pump

[The sheep dipper man]

Hi just looking at putting a new heating system in the farm house and just wounderd if any had installed a air source heat pump system.

Just wounderd what they were like and rough costs?

Thanks

 

[Exfarmer]

I have always stated my scepticism of air source. The efficiency drops so low in the winter and all use secondary immersion heating coils for the coldest periods.
the worst weather conditions are periods of high humidity when the intake fins will freeze solid in minutes.
the strange thing is that when the tenperature drops below zero the efficiency can improve!
My old swimming pool heat pump was only good if outside temps were above 10C , otherwise it was continually going into reverse mode to defrost the fins.
I have been lead tounderstand only really suitable for houses withScandinavian styles of insulation and underfloor heating, otherwise running costs will be through the roof

 

[Wurzeetoo]

I didn’t like my one I had in a new build. They are very expensive to run as well, a friend who has a heating company says he often gets called in the spring to check on people’s systems after they have seen the bill for the winter

 

[Gadget]

When our boiler needed changing I looked into ground source heating,.I was advised by a salesman that, because it is a relatively drafty and uninsulated building, the electricity bill for the heat exchanger would be more than the cost of kerosene.

 

[Exfarmer]

When our boiler needed changing I looked into ground source heating,.I was advised by a salesman that, because it is a relatively drafty and uninsulated building, the electricity bill for the heat exchanger would be more than the cost of kerosene.

A heat exchanger at best will give a 7 to 1 return in power used.
but this will be far closer to 2-1 in reality. Over the year, remeber the vast bulk of your usage will be in cold spells
then look at the cost of electricity per Kw compared to the same power from gas , oil etc.
currently I am paying 15p per kilowatt of electricity and 2.55 for gas
admittedly gas is only about 90% efficient, and I am getting a small anount of power today from my panels, but I think wecan all see it is a no brainer.

 

[borderterribles]

Hi just looking at putting a new heating system in the farm house and just wounderd if any had installed a air source heat pump system.

Just wounderd what they were like and rough costs?

Thanks

We had Air Source heating installed last Autumn. It replaced heating supplied by an oil fired Rayburn. I had very grave misgivings ( mainly due to what I have read on here) as we live fairly high up, in a far from arid location! As we replaced an oil fired system, we were eligible for the Government scheme, which is paid quarterly. Assuming the scheme runs its full course, it amounts to just £500 less than the installation cost of the system. We live in a bungalow, very well insulated, but without under floor heating. So far, I am very impressed with it indeed. The system is one of the New Generation Vaillant Air Source Pumps. Installed cost was a shade over £8,200 inc new radiators ,but using existing plumbing . For comparison, a new Rayburn is almost 10k. Still fairly early days to assess increased electricity usage, but currently looking to install solar panels.

 

[Puff]

Bought a 3 bed house @1000ft in West Wales, so its wet, cold, often in the clouds (like today). It came with an ASHP and a warning about electricity bills! House itself is cavity walled but they're not insulated and has d/glazing throughout. Oversize radiators though UFH in the "sun room" (an extension). Previously was oil-fired.
I'm conscious of the cost of running the place, so watch the smart meter like a hawk. I used 10,250 units last year (less than the 16000 the last owners did!). The h/w is always on. Since October I've set a value for during the day and drop it a couple for when I go to bed, so its constantly on. During the day there is a wood stove constantly on, which has the effect of hitting the target temp with wood not elec, which is then stocked up overnight. I also have a holiday rental, which normally hits 50% occupancy during the year but that's on oil and less occupied in the winter.
With that in mind, whilst it's not the cheapest way to heat the house, its warm/dry and comfortable. I'm also converting a barn which will be highly insulated but also going to have an ASHP. I estimate that will be 1/2 to 1/3 the equivalent usage, though I will have solar pv to help on the h/water. I'll be living there.
If the ASHP on the new place is still costly, I'll dig up the paddock & switch to GSHP

 

[honeyend]

We have 9kw of solar than pays for all our house electric. We have an air source on a new build with under floor heating down stairs, the odd electric heater upstairs that's hardly ever used. It runs about a constant 20 -21C in winter, the rooms that are not heated,19C.
Our neighbours have the same and I would say the main problems are because its new technology, even experts seem not to know how to fit the system properly. We had problems with its cutting out, after three experts we contacted Panasonic who we sent photos of the system, and some parts had been fitted upside down, and they had missed out a bit.
We use solar gain which heats the front of the house in the morning in winter, so it heats up quickly, so the size and type of windows makes a difference, and the orientation of the house, and a lot of cavity wall insulation.

 

[Exfarmer]

We had Air Source heating installed last Autumn. It replaced heating supplied by an oil fired Rayburn. I had very grave misgivings ( mainly due to what I have read on here) as we live fairly high up, in a far from arid location! As we replaced an oil fired system, we were eligible for the Government scheme, which is paid quarterly. Assuming the scheme runs its full course, it amounts to just £500 less than the installation cost of the system. We live in a bungalow, very well insulated, but without under floor heating. So far, I am very impressed with it indeed. The system is one of the New Generation Vaillant Air Source Pumps. Installed cost was a shade over £8,200 inc new radiators ,but using existing plumbing . For comparison, a new Rayburn is almost 10k. Still fairly early days to assess increased electricity usage, but currently looking to install solar panels.

Pleased to hear of your success, I have just installed a new Vailant heat pump for my pool. Sadly we immediately had issues but they did their best and replaced it as quick as possible in the current situation.
Then to cap it all, we discovered a leak so the pool is curently empty and we cannot try it out.
I will report on the performance .

 

[S J H]

We’ve got one, will probably change for oil once the rhi is up. I was told they’re no good for older properties, has to be well insulated. Our house is a new build, but i think it’s still quite dear, it’s not instant heat either so can’t just put it up when it feels cold, and I’ve had a couple of repairs needed in warranty,

 

[gavztheouch]

I have always stated my scepticism of air source. The efficiency drops so low in the winter and all use secondary immersion heating coils for the coldest periods.
the worst weather conditions are periods of high humidity when the intake fins will freeze solid in minutes.
the strange thing is that when the tenperature drops below zero the efficiency can improve!
My old swimming pool heat pump was only good if outside temps were above 10C , otherwise it was continually going into reverse mode to defrost the fins.
I have been lead tounderstand only really suitable for houses withScandinavian styles of insulation and underfloor heating, otherwise running costs will be through the roof

Do you know what flow temp you are using? Anything above 45 will be hurting efficiency. Underfloor heating works best as the flow temps can be as low as the 20’s

 

[Exfarmer]

Do you know what flow temp you are using? Anything above 45 will be hurting efficiency. Underfloor heating works best as the flow temps can be as low as the 20’s

I dont think we would want 45 in the swimming pool
normally it will be held down to 27-28

 

[gavztheouch]

We had Air Source heating installed last Autumn. It replaced heating supplied by an oil fired Rayburn. I had very grave misgivings ( mainly due to what I have read on here) as we live fairly high up, in a far from arid location! As we replaced an oil fired system, we were eligible for the Government scheme, which is paid quarterly. Assuming the scheme runs its full course, it amounts to just £500 less than the installation cost of the system. We live in a bungalow, very well insulated, but without under floor heating. So far, I am very impressed with it indeed. The system is one of the New Generation Vaillant Air Source Pumps. Installed cost was a shade over £8,200 inc new radiators ,but using existing plumbing . For comparison, a new Rayburn is almost 10k. Still fairly early days to assess increased electricity usage, but currently looking to install solar panels.

I have a quote for a 7kw Vailliant arotherm plus. It’s £12600 without radiators I have to do all that myself, plus a whole load of work like digging a track for an underground pipe, running a new cable for the air source power and running the pipes up the side of the house and pouring a concrete base for it to sit on. Your £8200 seems good value, is that before or after any government grants.

I made a spreadsheet to cost out all the materials and I reckon they have a labour charge of around 6k which I reckon would be an easy job for two people over at most two days. Seems like government grants are inflating prices.

 

[gavztheouch]

I dont think we would want 45 in the swimming pool
normally it will be held down to 27-28

Sorry I thought you had one in the house too.

 

[borderterribles]

I have a quote for a 7kw Vailliant arotherm plus. It’s £12600 without radiators I have to do all that myself, plus a whole load of work like digging a track for an underground pipe, running a new cable for the air source power and running the pipes up the side of the house and pouring a concrete base for it to sit on. Your £8200 seems good value, is that before or after any government grants.

I made a spreadsheet to cost out all the materials and I reckon they have a labour charge of around 6k which I reckon would be an easy job for two people over at most two days. Seems like government grants are inflating prices.

That is the total cost of the install. As it was to replace an oil system, the total Government grant comes to about £500 less than that, but over, I think, five years. Seems a bit rare, but who am I to argue? The only thing I had to do was dispose of the packaging that it came in.

 

[gavztheouch]

Sounds

That is the total cost of the install. As it was to replace an oil system, the total Government grant comes to about £500 less than that, but over, I think, five years. Seems a bit rare, but who am I to argue? The only thing I had to do was dispose of the packaging that it came in.

Sounds like you got a good deal. Do you know how many kw your heat pump is rated at. I guess if you are moving from oil they must have also replaced the water tank with a special heat pump version?

 

[How much]

I looked briefly at them a couple of months ago to change an LGP boiler in early 1990's bungalow , that are not ideal as there is too much wall and roof space to lose heat from , a old farmhouse would think be non starter unless some serious draft proofing and insulation had been done.
Apart from the cost of crica 15K I came to the conclusion that waiting another 5 years of so would probably be beneficial.
they are really suited to underfloor heating not ideal for radiators and if they are used you have to change all the radiators to have larger radiant area , plus they wont work with microbore radiator pipes as they need more flow
lead time was very long 4 to 6 months to get an install done locally anyway
they apparently don't freeze as much as they used to especially as there are now units configured for UK conditions I'm told

But overall I thought let technology develop a bit further first a new LPG boiler will suffice for now but in few years time either air source heat of maybe even the LPG converted to Hydrogen may be an option .

 

[How much]

I have a quote for a 7kw Vailliant arotherm plus. It’s £12600 without radiators I have to do all that myself, plus a whole load of work like digging a track for an underground pipe, running a new cable for the air source power and running the pipes up the side of the house and pouring a concrete base for it to sit on. Your £8200 seems good value, is that before or after any government grants.

I made a spreadsheet to cost out all the materials and I reckon they have a labour charge of around 6k which I reckon would be an easy job for two people over at most two days. Seems like government grants are inflating prices.

As stated inflated by the grant value I would say local lead times super extended by people taken in but overvalued i think

 

[Puff]

I have a quote for a 7kw Vailliant arotherm plus. It’s £12600 without radiators I have to do all that myself, plus a whole load of work like digging a track for an underground pipe, running a new cable for the air source power and running the pipes up the side of the house and pouring a concrete base for it to sit on. Your £8200 seems good value, is that before or after any government grants.

I made a spreadsheet to cost out all the materials and I reckon they have a labour charge of around 6k which I reckon would be an easy job for two people over at most two days. Seems like government grants are inflating prices.

Just for reference, I've had a quote for an 11Kw Valiant system brand new, u/floor heating, upstairs radiators, tanks etc £13,500 +VAT

 

[steveR]

Not available yet as still being trialled...

There is an ASHP coming that will produce outputs of 65C, on a par with more conventional boilers. This will allow an easier transition from oil/gas boilers for some.