All purpose Drill

[Topittom]

Hi all. I’m farming up in North Yorkshire on some heavy going land. Plenty of muck goes on. Current system is Sumo Trio and then carrier if needed. Drill with vaderstad. I’m wanting to move into the more no till territory on some of the better fields first so I’m looking at a later model Horsch Sprinter with the single springs on Dutch openers. I’m hoping this will give me the option to drill into worked down ploughing, after Sumo trio land and to try direct into stubbles or into lightly worked or LDS stubbles if needed. Does anyone have any experiences with these drills trying this approach or just any comments in general. Thanks

 

[goodevans]

Hi all. I’m farming up in North Yorkshire on some heavy going land. Plenty of muck goes on. Current system is Sumo Trio and then carrier if needed. Drill with vaderstad. I’m wanting to move into the more no till territory on some of the better fields first so I’m looking at a later model Horsch Sprinter with the single springs on Dutch openers. I’m hoping this will give me the option to drill into worked down ploughing, after Sumo trio land and to try direct into stubbles or into lightly worked or LDS stubbles if needed. Does anyone have any experiences with these drills trying this approach or just any comments in general. Thanks

Demo needed

 

[Topittom]

Demo needed

Yes probably right, just find demos never really come when you want/need them. Which is understandable, they’ve got to get round everyone.

 

[Alistair Nelson]

sprinter good option definitely another would be a sabre tine.

another option would be a Horsch avatar toolbar and front tank as you can get a second toolbar for other conditions etc and doesn’t need to be Horsch lots of options out there.

 

[Topittom]

Thanks Alistair. I have looked at sabre tines and like the look of them. I’ve been offered a sprinter is whats making me look at them harder and the more I look the more I think one could do the right job for us and be flexible enough to cover most situations. My only concern is pulling lumps up on some of the worst stuff.

 

[Alistair Nelson]

That is the benefit of the Dutch or Bourgault points they don’t hook in like a conventional drag point.

 

[Topittom]

This drill is on 5” open back dutch openers so is setup already. I would have to get rid of the Vaderstad though so i don't want to jump out of something that does work. I can’t really try DD with the Vaderstad though. Plan is to assess soils but hopefully be able to DD something this time.

 

[alomy75]

This drill is on 5” open back dutch openers so is setup already. I would have to get rid of the Vaderstad though so i don't want to jump out of something that does work. I can’t really try DD with the Vaderstad though. Plan is to assess soils but hopefully be able to DD something this time.

That’s a very big lump of a coulter if you’re on heavy land. Awesome drill but I’d 100% recommend metcalfe narrow 12mm coulters

 

[Topittom]

That’s a very big lump of a coulter if you’re on heavy land. Awesome drill but I’d 100% recommend metcalfe narrow 12mm coulters

Reading through a lot of threads on here it seems 5” is what most are using for cereals and then changing to the 2.5” or 1” for OSR and beans. I do get what you’re saying about a bit lump to pull, hadn’t thought of it really. At least there’s options although 1“ is twice the width of the 12mm Metcalfe ones.

 

[Nearly]

@Spud

Go see Metcalfe's workshops.

 

[alomy75]

Reading through a lot of threads on here it seems 5” is what most are using for cereals and then changing to the 2.5” or 1” for OSR and beans. I do get what you’re saying about a bit lump to pull, hadn’t thought of it really. At least there’s options although 1“ is twice the width of the 12mm Metcalfe ones.

I’d be worried about covering the seed again if it’s dry and hard

 

[Spud]

What's your rotation?

We have 5 drills sowing 600acres between them!

4m Vad Rapid drills cover crops, usually winter barley on pressed ploughing after wheat, and direct drills spring oats into a cover crop.

3m Mzuri protil drills most of the wheat, beans, and barley after barley. And the cc before spring oats

3m Pottinger combi drills wheat after potatoes, anything after sugar beet and is a general get out of jail card

4m Amazone combi on Suffolks is 20yrs old, just drills nurse barley while fettling beet seedbeds
6m Tine drill is the kiddy in a wet time, not had it that long, doesn't do much really, bit of an impulse buy last November

So yes, there's lots of possibilities. I wouldn't want to be without a disc drill of some kind. From what you've said so far, I think I'd be considering strip til. Keep the Vaderstad and demo a Mzuri

 

[Topittom]

What's your rotation?

We have 5 drills sowing 600acres between them!

4m Vad Rapid drills cover crops, usually winter barley on pressed ploughing after wheat, and direct drills spring oats into a cover crop.

3m Mzuri protil drills most of the wheat, beans, and barley after barley. And the cc before spring oats

3m Pottinger combi drills wheat after potatoes, anything after sugar beet and is a general get out of jail card

4m Amazone combi on Suffolks is 20yrs old, just drills nurse barley while fettling beet seedbeds
6m Tine drill is the kiddy in a wet time, not had it that long, doesn't do much really, bit of an impulse buy last November

So yes, there's lots of possibilities. I wouldn't want to be without a disc drill of some kind. From what you've said so far, I think I'd be considering strip til. Keep the Vaderstad and demo a Mzuri

thanks for the detailed reply spud. Rotation is Wheat / winter barley / OSR / wheat / winter beans. 3 year grass Leys in there and some SFI options.

i was looking at mzuri but my agronomist advised against it, he has some customers who had them and got rid of them and those who have them don’t use them very often. They are trying to do too much in 1 pass were his words.

The soils here are quite unforgiving and not workable once wet so we try to get fully drilled up by first few weeks in October so we’re not really trying to get a drill that’ll work in the wet. Another thing I’m trying to get away from is big kit, we used to have our main tractor as 200hp then we started with the sumo and every year we needed a bigger and bigger tractor so we now have and need a 300hp challenger on a 3m trio.

I think keeping the rapid is wise but I want a drill I can have a good go at DD with, or DD after LDS etc. Theres a soils expert who works for Agrovista lives in the neighbouring village who says everyone starting on DD route should start with a tine drill.

 

[Spud]

thanks for the detailed reply spud. Rotation is Wheat / winter barley / OSR / wheat / winter beans. 3 year grass Leys in there and some SFI options.

i was looking at mzuri but my agronomist advised against it, he has some customers who had them and got rid of them and those who have them don’t use them very often. They are trying to do too much in 1 pass were his words.

The soils here are quite unforgiving and not workable once wet so we try to get fully drilled up by first few weeks in October so we’re not really trying to get a drill that’ll work in the wet. Another thing I’m trying to get away from is big kit, we used to have our main tractor as 200hp then we started with the sumo and every year we needed a bigger and bigger tractor so we now have and need a 300hp challenger on a 3m trio.

I think keeping the rapid is wise but I want a drill I can have a good go at DD with, or DD after LDS etc. Theres a soils expert who works for Agrovista lives in the neighbouring village who says everyone starting on DD route should start with a tine drill.

I'd agree with the principle of a tine to start with - id also say start with the safer crops - for us it was a Kockerling AT300 I bought via this forum to drill beans with, then spring oats, wheat after beans etc as you learn a different way of working your soils.
Almost a game changer for us has been a trailed 6m vibroflex cultivator - for stale seedbeds and pre Mzuri. The difference compared to discs is significant.
Another was converting an old shakerator to Metcalfe legs.
The kiln in our yard gives an indication of soil type on the heavy side of the farm (!) the other side will grow root crops.
Biggest tractor here is 200hp.

The first things to sell are the trio and the challenger.

There is no such thing as one size fits all

 

[Topittom]

I'd agree with the principle of a tine to start with - id also say start with the safer crops - for us it was a Kockerling AT300 I bought via this forum to drill beans with, then spring oats, wheat after beans etc as you learn a different way of working your soils.
Almost a game changer for us has been a trailed 6m vibroflex cultivator - for stale seedbeds and pre Mzuri. The difference compared to discs is significant.
Another was converting an old shakerator to Metcalfe legs.
The kiln in our yard gives an indication of soil type on the heavy side of the farm (!) the other side will grow root crops.
Biggest tractor here is 200hp.

The first things to sell are the trio and the challenger.

There is no such thing as one size fits all

I agree the trio and challenger need to go.

My rough plan is much like what you’re doing regarding converting an old subsoiler to Metcalfe legs for areas that need it. I was planning on keeping the carrier for stale seedbeds and to create a bit of tilth before going in with the sprinter. What is the difference you’ve found with the tine vibroflex compared to discs?

 

[Spud]

I agree the trio and challenger need to go.

My rough plan is much like what you’re doing regarding converting an old subsoiler to Metcalfe legs for areas that need it. I was planning on keeping the carrier for stale seedbeds and to create a bit of tilth before going in with the sprinter. What is the difference you’ve found with the tine vibroflex compared to discs?

Less smearing, more tilth, far more weatherproof, cheaper to run. It also pecks through surface compaction that the discs ride over

 

[alomy75]

I agree the trio and challenger need to go.

My rough plan is much like what you’re doing regarding converting an old subsoiler to Metcalfe legs for areas that need it. I was planning on keeping the carrier for stale seedbeds and to create a bit of tilth before going in with the sprinter. What is the difference you’ve found with the tine vibroflex compared to discs?

If you’ve got heavy land I’d say the crawler is essential. My sprinter will keep going when it starts to get wet but the crop won’t come in the tractor wheelings. Put the crawler on and you gain a few more days. Plus you’ll need a Ld subsoiler of some description and nothing will pull it like the crawler will.

 

[Topittom]

If you’ve got heavy land I’d say the crawler is essential. My sprinter will keep going when it starts to get wet but the crop won’t come in the tractor wheelings. Put the crawler on and you gain a few more days. Plus you’ll need a Ld subsoiler of some description and nothing will pull it like the crawler will.

Don’t get me wrong I do like the crawler but we never used to need anything so big. Its that saying that tillage begets tillage and you need to do more and more each year, I want to try get away from big kit.

Useful bit of kit to have in the shed but we‘re not big enough to be able to keep a huge variety of things just in case. We’d hope to be drilling before it gets too wet, anything we drilled last year after the weather turned has only grown as half crops

 

[alomy75]

Don’t get me wrong I do like the crawler but we never used to need anything so big. Its that saying that tillage begets tillage and you need to do more and more each year, I want to try get away from big kit.

Useful bit of kit to have in the shed but we‘re not big enough to be able to keep a huge variety of things just in case. We’d hope to be drilling before it gets too wet, anything we drilled last year after the weather turned has only grown as half crops

On any other soil type I’d agree but if you’re on medium-heavy I’d just try dd for a year or two before letting it go; it’s cheap hp and if you go down the dd route soil health will be top priority. Just because it’s big and heavy doesn’t mean it’s creating problems; quite the opposite. We roll with ours; 12m rolls-you literally can’t see where it’s been.

 

[Adeptandy]

thanks for the detailed reply spud. Rotation is Wheat / winter barley / OSR / wheat / winter beans. 3 year grass Leys in there and some SFI options.

i was looking at mzuri but my agronomist advised against it, he has some customers who had them and got rid of them and those who have them don’t use them very often. They are trying to do too much in 1 pass were his words.

The soils here are quite unforgiving and not workable once wet so we try to get fully drilled up by first few weeks in October so we’re not really trying to get a drill that’ll work in the wet. Another thing I’m trying to get away from is big kit, we used to have our main tractor as 200hp then we started with the sumo and every year we needed a bigger and bigger tractor so we now have and need a 300hp challenger on a 3m trio.

I think keeping the rapid is wise but I want a drill I can have a good go at DD with, or DD after LDS etc. Theres a soils expert who works for Agrovista lives in the neighbouring village who says everyone starting on DD route should start with a tine drill.

I would agree with the - start with a tine drill quote. I went from Vaddy to GD as at the time it would been crippling financially to go tine then GD, but in hindsight ( DD drill are more readily available for more sensible £ ) I’d have suffered the expense. Just brought a Sabre, as in year 4 I still think it is needed, especially with the wet winters we’ve had.