All things Dairy

[coomoo]

Getting on well with the RMS bedding, in what I presume is a wet area?

Seem to be cows were a credit. I’ll let you know more after next week or two, got them coming here to see about a similar system.

 

[Jdunn55]

I was thinking about your fertility problems... I know you had suggested various nutritional issues - but have you tested for fluke?

Yes tested and always comes back positive. Always fluke everything at dry off and all youngstock at housing. Not really much more I can do as none of the flukes are licenced in lactating cows unless I want to chuck milk away for 5 days I think and then that one only treats adult fluke I think so would all need doing again to get good results. Total pita

 

[frederick]

Yes tested and always comes back positive. Always fluke everything at dry off and all youngstock at housing. Not really much more I can do as none of the flukes are licenced in lactating cows unless I want to chuck milk away for 5 days I think and then that one only treats adult fluke I think so would all need doing again to get good results. Total pita

Did learn this week that low proteins are a sign of fluke. And might enable more targeted treatment.

 

[Jdunn55]

Did learn this week that low proteins are a sign of fluke. And might enable more targeted treatment.

Interesting... Do you mean on an individual cow basis rather than herd? Think my herd protein average is about 3.6 at the moment with yearling average about 3.7 but perhaps there are individual cows pulling it down?

I have considered testing every cow individually for fluke and treating say the worst 10-25% but the test is far from cheap unfortunately so if it were possible to do it off milk recordings of protein levels that would be well worth considering.

 

[som farmer]

found some old farming videos on u'tube last night, dairy farming, 1944 to 1965, which was about the time l first milked a cow. We think we have moved on a long way since then, we have in machinery, yields and better shaped cows.

But, automated feeding, self propelled mowers, maxing home produced feed, max milk from grass, even rotational grazing, all in practice, biggest problem, labour.

we have modernised our systems, but the basic profit pointers, are the same today, as then, just a lot easier to do now.

 

[frederick]

Interesting... Do you mean on an individual cow basis rather than herd? Think my herd protein average is about 3.6 at the moment with yearling average about 3.7 but perhaps there are individual cows pulling it down?

I have considered testing every cow individually for fluke and treating say the worst 10-25% but the test is far from cheap unfortunately so if it were possible to do it off milk recordings of protein levels that would be well worth considering.

Yes individual. So you could target the cows you test potentially more accurately and if test regularly showed up a positive it might be better to just treat.
However I have done nothing and have no useful proteins as my cows are now all dry.
Dry period has in the past been my period of highest risk of infection.

 

[som farmer]

Interesting... Do you mean on an individual cow basis rather than herd? Think my herd protein average is about 3.6 at the moment with yearling average about 3.7 but perhaps there are individual cows pulling it down?

I have considered testing every cow individually for fluke and treating say the worst 10-25% but the test is far from cheap unfortunately so if it were possible to do it off milk recordings of protein levels that would be well worth considering.

ideally, you should fluke them 3 weeks after housing, you catch the immatures then, but another hassle. We fluke at drying off, but kill sheets still show active fluke on some, and historic fluke on others.

I follow an 'old wives cure', any cow with the flap of skin, under her jaw, looking a bit watery, we treat, 'old wives' claim, sign of a fluke problem, difficult to explain/describe it. But have done it for 50 yrs, and never found a reason not to do it, unlike most of those old 'cures' !

 

[In the pit]

ideally, you should fluke them 3 weeks after housing, you catch the immatures then, but another hassle. We fluke at drying off, but kill sheets still show active fluke on some, and historic fluke on others.

I follow an 'old wives cure', any cow with the flap of skin, under her jaw, looking a bit watery, we treat, 'old wives' claim, sign of a fluke problem, difficult to explain/describe it. But have done it for 50 yrs, and never found a reason not to do it, unlike most of those old 'cures' !

Flap under the skin people say could be liver issues and also johnes

 

[In the pit]

@Jdunn55 problem with his fertility has been cow condition in the dry period or the month after calving ( a few people have commented on thin cows ) and now looking at recent cow pictures they look a lot better and suprise suprise the fertility has improved and cows are getting in calf

 

[TheRanger]

Poisons working then

 

[Jdunn55]

@Jdunn55 problem with his fertility has been cow condition in the dry period or the month after calving ( a few people have commented on thin cows ) and now looking at recent cow pictures they look a lot better and suprise suprise the fertility has improved and cows are getting in calf

My autumn calvers have been the main issue with fertility, and they were all bang on BCS when calving in last year. It's my spring calvers who were thin at calving and tbh theyre having better conception rates than the autumns

I don't really think BCS was the issue. I think thats just been another symptom

 

[som farmer]

My autumn calvers have been the main issue with fertility, and they were all bang on BCS when calving in last year. It's my spring calvers who were thin at calving and tbh theyre having better conception rates than the autumns

I don't really think BCS was the issue. I think thats just been another symptom

your aut calvers should be on a rising plane of nutrition, and should be easier to get i/c.

you have some high yielders, which ones were the problem, high hols, or fr's ?

your earlier suggestion, nutrition, sounds the likely course, and you did tweak management, a couple of times.

look to your dry cow, and transition diets, get them right, follow through with a balanced winter ration, and then buy a bigger bulk tank !

the smaller the herd/group, the bigger effect the small problems give you.

we aim to start 1st oct, then they can transition on to the full winter ration, august/sept calvers, tend to think we expect them to milk off grass, more than they actually can.

 

[In the pit]

My autumn calvers have been the main issue with fertility, and they were all bang on BCS when calving in last year. It's my spring calvers who were thin at calving and tbh theyre having better conception rates than the autumns

I don't really think BCS was the issue. I think thats just been another symptom

Energy ,your cows require a lot of energy to do the milk yields they were doing and even if bcs was fine at calving ,they then loose weight post calving and your in big trouble
Had it here last year with autumns ,calved it at bcs of 3/3.25 onto silage which wasn’t good enough and came bulling well enough but just didn’t get in calf
In my younger days did exactly as you ,vet in every couple of weeks doing breeding exams ,causing more harm that good ,doing blood tests ,milk tests looking for anything they could find and then sell you something to correct any problem they found
Same with cake salesman trying to sell you the next best thing
Then a magic bullet came along in the form of a discussion group and a few numberings of “these cows are thin how’s the fertility”.

 

[In the pit]

your aut calvers should be on a rising plane of nutrition, and should be easier to get i/c.

you have some high yielders, which ones were the problem, high hols, or fr's ?

your earlier suggestion, nutrition, sounds the likely course, and you did tweak management, a couple of times.

look to your dry cow, and transition diets, get them right, follow through with a balanced winter ration, and then buy a bigger bulk tank !

the smaller the herd/group, the bigger effect the small problems give you.

we aim to start 1st oct, then they can transition on to the full winter ration, august/sept calvers, tend to think we expect them to milk off grass, more than they actually can.

That’s fine as long as your silage is good enough to support the yields your wanting to do

 

[In the pit]

your aut calvers should be on a rising plane of nutrition, and should be easier to get i/c.

If they come of high me grass onto lower me silage how are they on a rising plane of nutrition

 

[Homesy]

your aut calvers should be on a rising plane of nutrition, and should be easier to get i/c.

If they come of high me grass onto lower me silage how are they on a rising plane of nutrition

Intake. 3 or 4 extra kilos of DM intake more than makes up for the lower ME.

 

[In the pit]

Intake. 3 or 4 extra kilos of DM intake more than makes up for the lower ME.

But that very much depends on how good your silage is ,, dm ,me ,protein
Your grazed grass could be 13 me whereas your silage could be 10.5 ,a few kilos don’t make up the difference

 

[Jdunn55]

your aut calvers should be on a rising plane of nutrition, and should be easier to get i/c.

If they come of high me grass onto lower me silage how are they on a rising plane of nutrition

They were on 11me and 17%protein grass silage and 12 me maize silage, 14%me cake and added megalac too

 

[Jdunn55]

Energy ,your cows require a lot of energy to do the milk yields they were doing and even if bcs was fine at calving ,they then loose weight post calving and your in big trouble
Had it here last year with autumns ,calved it at bcs of 3/3.25 onto silage which wasn’t good enough and came bulling well enough but just didn’t get in calf
In my younger days did exactly as you ,vet in every couple of weeks doing breeding exams ,causing more harm that good ,doing blood tests ,milk tests looking for anything they could find and then sell you something to correct any problem they found
Same with cake salesman trying to sell you the next best thing
Then a magic bullet came along in the form of a discussion group and a few numberings of “these cows are thin how’s the fertility”.

My autumn calvers were scored in december, average was 3.5 BCS if anything they were too fat than thin

 

[In the pit]

They were on 11me and 17%protein grass silage and 12 me maize silage, 14%me cake and added megalac too

Well I hope you do well and find the magic pill then