All things Dairy

[som farmer]

The climate footprint of a beef herd rearing beef calves is terrible compared to rearing beef calves from a dairy herd because the animal out of a beef dam has to pay for her footprint for a year as well as its own.

and yet grass fed beef, is meant to be better.

its an argument farmers cannot win. Because the rules keep changing.

 

[Headless chicken]

Have you got any statistics to back that up.

From a heifer rearing point of view as long as the cow walks up the ramp alive the first two years of life are covered by the beef. So any further gain is only really had by improved efficiency and that is likely to be newer genetics at a higher percentage.

The killer for carbon footprint is when the animal is winched up in the lorry and statistically that will happen more often in much older cows.

been part of a trail group with leprino. Haven’t got copies of the figures to hand but reducing heifer numbers is/was the largest possible gain in carbon.

Ultimately it’s irrelevant what we think. It’s what the modelling says.
Chasing down this route isn’t an optional extra it is a legal requirement for businesses.

 

[lazy farmer]

Cows looked well, they seemed to know what they were doing

I'll give you a proper farm in sunny Canterbury then

@daveydiesel1 This the sort of farm you're after?

Love the OAD farmer no bulls**t.

 

[crashbox]

Genomics can be a useful piece of the breeding jigsaw. However there is a danger that some folk out there see it as the ultimate tool, which could be dangerous.
Being involved with a smaller breed especially so. Have a look at Lot 24/ 25 on Sat

Looking at a bull the other day & the genomic reliability was 30%. might as well go on red or black at the casino

We have genomic tested our heifers, and use mostly genomic sires.

However, by far the best genetic tool available in farm is to use sexed semen from bulls that suit your system, and only breed replacements from the best 30 to 50% of your herd.

I say 50% as block calving here, so only get 1 (or maybe 2) shots at getting a heifer from a particular animal; target is all heifers born in the first 3 to 4 weeks.

On an AYR system their is the advantage of two or more attenpts at a heifer from the best cows.

 

[crashbox]

Love the OAD farmer no bulls**t.

Great guy.

 

[frederick]

been part of a trail group with leprino. Haven’t got copies of the figures to hand but reducing heifer numbers is/was the largest possible gain in carbon.

Ultimately it’s irrelevant what we think. It’s what the modelling says.
Chasing down this route isn’t an optional extra it is a legal requirement for businesses.

But on the arla side where it's now a bit more than a trial and where points win prizes the points are for reducing dead cows on the farm because that's where the big impact is not replacement rate.

However where you are right it's what the model says that's important and we now live in a world where different models say different things.

What we actually need is to have access to these models to understand where the numbers really come from and not just say this farmer seems better but be able to run hypothetical numbers to see what the impact would be.

 

[kiwi pom]

Love the OAD farmer no bulls**t.

He's a laid-back sort of a bloke, not scared to say he's still learning and will try something new
One of the only channels I keep watching over the years.

His mate looks like he has the 50.50 job sorted.

 

[lazy farmer]

He's a laid-back sort of a bloke, not scared to say he's still learning and will try something new
One of the only channels I keep watching over the years.

His mate looks like he has the 50.50 job sorted.

It is really interesting seeing how spring calving is done differently. Couple of things I find weird are he and the other guy I watch get out of the pit to open and shut the back and front gates. Plus they use the vet techs a lot more than we would in the uk to do routine jobs like vaccinations and teat sealing.

 

[crashbox]

It is really interesting seeing how spring calving is done differently. Couple of things I find weird are he and the other guy I watch get out of the pit to open and shut the back and front gates. Plus they use the vet techs a lot more than we would in the uk to do routine jobs like vaccinations and teat sealing.

Low labour use is key to the system (150 to 200 cows per person not uncommon). Doesn't leave a lot of spare capacity for those "extra" jobs...

 

[Headless chicken]

But on the arla side where it's now a bit more than a trial and where points win prizes the points are for reducing dead cows on the farm because that's where the big impact is not replacement rate.

However where you are right it's what the model says that's important and we now live in a world where different models say different things.

What we actually need is to have access to these models to understand where the numbers really come from and not just say this farmer seems better but be able to run hypothetical numbers to see what the impact would be.

Absolutely correct, 5 lactations is a broad sweeping statement but it covers the many by taking that approach. What’s obviously ineffective is if if you culled at 4 you’d loose 1% up the ramp but at 5 you loose 10%. to start with these need to be one sizes fits the majority then individualised.

one of the biggest principles we’ve covered is pull instead of push. What happens on a lot of farms is they rear 30% to of reasonable heifers and push out viable cows on the basis of genetic gain or because we’ve got them. Where as in fact you should pull through the correct number of heifers that are to absolute spec. I’m sure we’re all guilty of squeezing one more animal in here and there but that often comes at a detriment.

20 heifers calving in at 24 months 90+% of body weight is a far better outcome than 25 calving in at an average of 25/26 months 85% of adult weight.

 

[crashbox]

What happens on a lot of farms is they rear 30% to of reasonable heifers and push out viable cows on the basis of genetic gain or because we’ve got them. Where as in fact you should pull through the correct number of heifers that are to absolute spec.

Agree.

We are guilty of this, but carrying too many heifers as an "insurance" against TB.

One year we lost 50 cattle, the next maybe 5!

So what to do?

 

[frederick]

Agree.

We are guilty of this, but carrying too many heifers as an "insurance" against TB.

One year we lost 50 cattle, the next maybe 5!

So what to do?

We try to run a bit of tb insurance as well.

What to do is farm as you want and make a few suggested improvements if they appeal and ignore the rest.

 

[lazy farmer]

Low labour use is key to the system (150 to 200 cows per person not uncommon). Doesn't leave a lot of spare capacity for those "extra" jobs...

Nah he’s OAD. He seems very chilled. He’s there watching them work !but I do take your point.

 

[daveydiesel1]

Cows looked well, they seemed to know what they were doing

I'll give you a proper farm in sunny Canterbury then

@daveydiesel1 This the sort of farm you're after?

Lovely

 

[Bert Jansch]

Doesn’t mean it’s right. Or by those rules the only beef about will be cull cows.

There’ll be some rough lamb about

 

[Tullyvernon]

Anyone watch Tom P on the YouTubes?
Don't usually watch but I like looking at other farms type videos.
Looked a fair place, maybe someone on here?

Enjoyed that video, looks a fantastic setup, well on top of their game

 

[Headless chicken]

Agree.

We are guilty of this, but carrying too many heifers as an "insurance" against TB.

One year we lost 50 cattle, the next maybe 5!

So what to do?

factor in the risk, consider historic data and where your herd is currently. Constantly adjust. If you ran too many heifers last year and didn’t loose as many as expected keep a few less this year

 

[crashbox]

factor in the risk, consider historic data and where your herd is currently. Constantly adjust. If you ran too many heifers last year and didn’t loose as many as expected keep a few less this year

By then you've already culled the older cows to make room for the extra heifers.

Or sold the heifers to keep the cows.

Your point has relevance if you normally run at lower than maximum capacity, but margins are such here that we stock to the maximum sustainable level.

 

[buffalo_soldier]

Haha, i had this row with the climate expert last year.

Her: You're running too many heifers, booo, bad points for you. On the naughty step with you!
Me: Those cattle put £50k in my bank when i sold them, how much do you earn?
Her: ...................
Me: Ive tried paying my mortgage with carbon credits, the bank wont take them.
Her: .................. Perhaps we should move on.

I really shouldn't do these checks during calving

 

[More to life]

Haha, i had this row with the climate expert last year.

Her: You're running too many heifers, booo, bad points for you. On the naughty step with you!
Me: Those cattle put £50k in my bank when i sold them, how much do you earn?
Her: ...................
Me: Ive tried paying my mortgage with carbon credits, the bank wont take them.
Her: .................. Perhaps we should move on.

I really shouldn't do these checks during calving

you charmer