All things Dairy

[supercow]

Agree with what your saying, but we all have our way of doing things and I don't believe the people who tube calves to ensure colostrum intake needs to be told by studies and men in suits how to handle their cattle, maybe hit a nerve saying me and every other farmer who tubes calves are doing it completely wrong. Do these fellas in suits who makes these amazing studies tube calves at midnight because the cow calved at 9 at night. if I did all of what these studies told Me to do I would honestly be scared to leave the house. Sorry I didn't mean to sound aggressive before!

 

[supercow]

Also every fella who tubes calves from now will not admit because your stating they are are doing it right!i have yet to see evidence of damage from tubing a calve, what evidence exactly is it ur talking about ??

 

[Dead Rabbits]

Mr cow

To get such a defensive response to something not directed at you must have hit a nerve.... that or your self esteem must be sky high

I never said your going to kill the bloody things just there is a better way of doing it... and there is evidence that is does cause internal injury to the animal. surely you have to question the need to tube for the first 2 feeds...
Are we not all trying to work to the highest level of stockmanship so I would say move away from what is effectively force feeding animal that doesn't require it would be a no brainer?
It's is not a good look for the industry...

Not to be confused with tubing a sick animal to help save it life(as I have said before I agree with)

After 2 feeds with the tube do they still not need to be trained onto the teat?

Kind regards
Mr Irish

Ps. My previous post was more than a few lines I will admit but however it wasn't exactly Leo Tolstoy's war and peace so do bare with me to the end.

I started a thread on colostrum feeding and block calving systems recently in the dairy section. Perhaps you could describe your system there and post the NZ vets findings?

 

[Davy]

The message from an AFBI day held recently about calf health and colostrum management was that bagging calves with 10% of their birth weight asap was best for the calf in preventing health issues further on. Leaving it to suck the cow didn't guarantee it would get enough within 6 hours and offering it a bottle is fine but they don't always take it all. We tube them all here, within the 6 hours and with the quantity needed and it makes the difference with rearing them. Bagging means they all have the same start to life.

 

[supercow]

The message from an AFBI day held recently about calf health and colostrum management was that bagging calves with 10% of their birth weight asap was best for the calf in preventing health issues further on. Leaving it to suck the cow didn't guarantee it would get enough within 6 hours and offering it a bottle is fine but they don't always take it all. We tube them all here, within the 6 hours and with the quantity needed and it makes the difference with rearing them. Bagging means they all have the same start to life.

Thank you @Davy I needed some support there and you brought it!!! @Irish NZ is correct in that in a perfect world we could stand with the calve for half an hour to get 4 litres of colostrum in, but I don't unfortunately live in a perfect world.

 

[lazy farmer]

Thank you @Davy I needed some support there and you brought it!!! @Irish NZ is correct in that in a perfect world we could stand with the calve for half an hour to get 4 litres of colostrum in, but I don't unfortunately live in a perfect world.

what confuses me is you have time to teach the calf to drink when its 24hrs old but not when its born. We manage between 10 and 15 on a busy day and find they are a damn site easier to train then than day 2 after tubing

 

[multi power]

IMO nothing stimulates a calve to suck like a full belly of colustrom
It's hungry weak latargic calves that are hard to get to suck

 

[supercow]

what confuses me is you have time to teach the calf to drink when its 24hrs old but not when its born. We manage between 10 and 15 on a busy day and find they are a damn site easier to train then than day 2 after tubing

How many cows per labour unit do you have?

 

[lazy farmer]

120

 

[supercow]

That's very good your a busy boy, and obviously doing a great job. Is your number including youngstock? We are at 112 cows per unit, plus 220 Youngstock. I'm not disagreeing with you lot, I'm just saying don't say to folk that tune their calves it's cruel, winds me up.

 

[lazy farmer]

we do have youngstock in that but only 60 rising 1s at calving time plus what ever calves are born. rising 2s join the dry cows at Christmas.

 

[O'Reilly]

That's very good your a busy boy, and obviously doing a great job. Is your number including youngstock? We are at 112 cows per unit, plus 220 Youngstock. I'm not disagreeing with you lot, I'm just saying don't say to folk that tune their calves it's cruel, winds me up.

It is cruel. Do the job properly.

 

[frederick]

It is cruel. Do the job properly.

Cruel is having calves dieing with scours and pneumonia. Cruel is bad housing.

There are dairy units with youngstock mortality way into double digits.

I tube calves because its simpler and works for us.

We rear all our replacements and other calves leave at 3weeks. 350 calves a year.

Just checked total pre weaning mortality 3 calves over last 3 years.

The welfare of my youngstock is the thing I am most proud of on our farm

 

[pappuller]

Thank you @Davy I needed some support there and you brought it!!! @Irish NZ is correct in that in a perfect world we could stand with the calve for half an hour to get 4 litres of colostrum in, but I don't unfortunately live in a perfect world.

But surely you should give that calf the time to suckle naturally asap after birth, I don't think too many midwives would approve of mum pulling out a stomach tube to feed a newborn baby ? If it's taking 1/2 hr for a calf to suck 4 litres of colostrum would you consider that the calf isn't keen enough due to anything else ? We find 4 litres can be drunk within 10 mins quite easily..

 

[supercow]

It is cruel. Do the job properly.

Haha!

 

[vantage]

Haha!

Don't rise to the bait.

 

[O'Reilly]

No calves lost here to pneumonia or scours in the last 15 years. Use a speedy feeder with a teat. If the calf will not drink, remove the teat, put the tube top on the bottle, tube the calf, give it a sniff of metacam, because tubing hurts, and the calf continues to be difficult to feed if you don't. If your iodine levels are OK, and you get to the calf in good time, there should be no problem in bottle feeding a calf, in fact the bigger problem should be getting to the calf before it gets to its mothers teat!

 

[supercow]

You haven't lost a calve in 15 years? I don't know some of you boys don't get recommended for dairy farmer of the century!

 

[O'Reilly]

One got put down last year because it had some internal problem that the vet couldn't diagnose, so thought that would be the least pain option, had one the other year seemed to have some kind of blockage. Occassional bloat. Once they are born alive we rarely lose them, and definitely not to scours or pneumonia, which was my original statement. There's lots wrong with this business, but calf health is something we can take some pride in knowing is done well.

 

[betweenthelines]

I'd have thought that tubing 4 litres into a newborn is the best way to discourage it from sucking.

Logic would say that if suckler beef calves don't need to be tubed, then neither do dairy calves.

Given the attention given to i/c dairy cattle I would have thought that dairy calves would be at least as healthy at birth as sucklers' calves (not slagging off beef farmers) yet I doubt any beef farmers tube many(if any) calves