Another Tup question

[d.iainm]

Just looking at the sensible prices being paid for hill tup lambs. I am sure they will be on top of a wind swept heather hill in November or December working though.
Got me thinking about the reasons tup breeders sell tups when they do.
I would think a terminal would be a good bet to buy as a lamb you can see how well it has grown to that age giving a good sign of what his lambs would grow like. Most using terminal tups would be keeping them until they are done so an extra year working out of them over a test group see if they up to the job.
Maternal a shearling as you would be selling it as a 3 shear as it would be coming onto its daughters unless you have a large flock and move the tups around breeding groups. It would also cover more ewes than a lamb.

So Tup breeders There are plenty of you on here I have seen the pics of some cracking looking tups!!!. Just wondering what age you sell your tups and what are reasons for this also if its maternal or terminal tup. For some it might just be a case they never got an offer for what the tup was worth as a lamb. I think this is a perfectly good reason for holding onto a tup.

when people buy tups what age do you prefer and again reasons.

I only have a small flock so I am happy to buy a 3 or 4 shear tup that is in decent nick costs less and does the job. Have Bought a shearling this year only the second time I have used a shearling tup. Want to expand the flock so bought a recored tup with good maternal figures. Prob wont get very much for it if it lives till 3 shear as people here ain't keen on them prefer to get the nice young trimmed dyed and polished ones.

So how do you sell your tups and how do you buy your tups

 

[ed g]

I try to sell all my texel tups as lambs as I have quite a wet farm so prefer to not over winter lambs to sell as shearlings. I also run a farm attraction and have upto 28 weddings/functions each summer so have limited time. This year I have sold 28 lambs to average £328 so can't see the point in overwintering tups and feeding them when local buyers at sedgemoor find buying shearling tups at £300 as expensive. I have kept 10 good lambs to sell next year and have killed all the rest. Currently have 40 pedigree ewe lambs which I will whittle down to 30 by killing the bottom 25 percent on performance . Of these about 12 will be sold as shearlings with the rest joining the flock as they are out of a particularly good tupI bought last year. As for buying tups, I try to buy as lambs at the national sales but buy the same bloodlines as the top boys but out of flocks which aren't stuffing their lambs with huge amounts of feed to win the show. As a result my main tup is now 5 years old with my junior sires looking really fit. The main flocks in terms of prices and show wins this year had lambs at the national sales that were so grossly overweight it was unbelievable. I suppose as these tups will only be doing it into a test tube they can manage it. At home before Worcester ths year I thought my lambs were big but they were dwarfed by some of the lambs there. By looking around you can get exactly the same bloodlines as the award winners but by buying out of smaller more sensible flocks you end up with longer lasting tups.

 

[d.iainm]

I try to sell all my texel tups as lambs as I have quite a wet farm so prefer to not over winter lambs to sell as shearlings. I also run a farm attraction and have upto 28 weddings/functions each summer so have limited time. This year I have sold 28 lambs to average £328 so can't see the point in overwintering tups and feeding them when local buyers at sedgemoor find buying shearling tups at £300 as expensive. I have kept 10 good lambs to sell next year and have killed all the rest. Currently have 40 pedigree ewe lambs which I will whittle down to 30 by killing the bottom 25 percent on performance . Of these about 12 will be sold as shearlings with the rest joining the flock as they are out of a particularly good tupI bought last year.

I take it your flock is recorded. To me it makes more sense to by a terminal texel or whatever breed as a lamb then you get an extra year out of it going by your prices for only £28. But Like you say paying to winter them does not make sense if the value is dropping. Why did you keep 10 good lambs this year was it that you never got enough offered on them or just to have a few available to sell incase people are paying a lot for shearlngs next year. Do you sell on farm or through the ring.

when you are buying a tup for your own flock what age would you buy or would it be mainly in performance index and price. Is it all texel ewes you run or is that one flock as part of a larger set up.

Ever thought of breeding some black face tups they seem to go for some price!!!!!!

 

[ed g]

I've recorded my flock since 2006 when I started with the texels. I feel that my ewe flock is better for it as over the last few years I have culled the bottom 25 percent. Looking at the figures, most of the ewes being culled are all from the same family lines producing lambs which aren't selling as breeders or as the first draft as fat lambs. I have kept 10 lambs to sell next year as I do usually sell some of farm. It also helps to see what my ram lambs are going to turn out like.of the ten, i will probably kill three leaving 7 to sell. i usually try to sell at 480 for top 10 percent going down to 300 for average figures.I didn't sell them this year as 5 didn't meet reserve with the remainder not matching the rest of the Builth pen. When buying a tup ( bought a cairnum lamb this year which ihave high hopes for) I spend hours looking at ram lamb catalogues and indexes then get to the sale and find the highest performers don't meet my requirements looks wise so I usually try to buy a top 10 percent which has the length and carcass which I hope wil click with my ewes. I've used a couple of rams heavily over the last 4 years so most of my 75 ewes are very similar in type producing lambs which when at sale age are all like peas in a pod. Prefer to buy as lambs as that's the age they get killed. Looking at the farming eye reports today I'm in the wrong breed

 

[d.iainm]

I've recorded my flock since 2006 when I started with the texels. I feel that my ewe flock is better for it as over the last few years I have culled the bottom 25 percent. Looking at the figures, most of the ewes being culled are all from the same family lines producing lambs which aren't selling as breeders or as the first draft as fat lambs. I have kept 10 lambs to sell next year as I do usually sell some of farm. It also helps to see what my ram lambs are going to turn out like.of the ten, i will probably kill three leaving 7 to sell. i usually try to sell at 480 for top 10 percent going down to 300 for average figures.I didn't sell them this year as 5 didn't meet reserve with the remainder not matching the rest of the Builth pen. When buying a tup ( bought a cairnum lamb this year which ihave high hopes for) I spend hours looking at ram lamb catalogues and indexes then get to the sale and find the highest performers don't meet my requirements looks wise so I usually try to buy a top 10 percent which has the length and carcass which I hope wil click with my ewes. I've used a couple of rams heavily over the last 4 years so most of my 75 ewes are very similar in type producing lambs which when at sale age are all like peas in a pod. Prefer to buy as lambs as that's the age they get killed. Looking at the farming eye reports today I'm in the wrong breed

I take the three you might kill would be on poor performance through the winter. Seems like a good way to sell them and quite right not to sell for less than their value its you that is putting the effort into producing good tups. Do you have the index's on show on sale day do many people ask you about them. The reason I ask is a breeder I know on another island records his flock is very dedicated and has good stock. He takes his tups away to sell. He said very few people ever asked him about their recording or index's. Would you not buy on farm or is it just a case of none of what your after going at on farm sale. Its the ewes I am trying to get to look like peas in a bod just now as you say they sell better.

yeah the there were some prices. From a pen of 7 the first 5 tup lambs averaged 23.6k. When the last two were sold the average went down to 16.9K. So before you went to the sale and you had 5 tup lambs and the 2 that were on average worth 23.3.k less than the other 5 would you not leave them at home would there not be a major difference in the tup lambs. What will they be selling as shearlings. The ones on average that are worth less than the first 5 or the last 2 they sold. This is what has always got me how can from a pen of 7 come total extremes in prices.

 

[ed g]

Your right - over the winter the lambs that look ok will not turn out as expected so are killed. The indexes are in the catalogue s so I try to take the higher indexed ones to the bigger sales. I would prefer to buy off farm and have actually ordered one for next year off farm but do like being able to compare flocks at a big salePeople buying on farm tend to ask for the records whereas the commercial buyers at the local market don't seem to have cottoned onto them yet. I'm sure they will in time. With the blackface lambs, like any breed, breeders wil always try to have similar lambs in a run but will usually have their best strongest two going in first hence the highest prices. The lesser priced lambs will still be good lambs but may have different bloodlines. Also, the big money being bid on the first one or two just makes the others seem cheap. Also the top prices are usually from the current fashionable flocks or bloodlines and doesn't always mean that they are the best sheep. Pedigree breeding is a law unto its own.

 

[d.iainm]

The blackie pedigree is a law to itself all the cash goes round in circles from the looks of things makes a mockery of the poor hill farmer though does not give a good public image well I don't think so anyway. For two lambs from the same bunch to sell for 68k and the other for £200 that is some difference in bloodlines. But someone will get to go home and say iv got a tup what what ever big name you like and would have only paid a couple of hundred for it. Prices like that are not seen in any other hill breed.
Yeah I was surprised when that guy said that nobody was interested in the fact they were recorded. I am trying to get my old man to look more into recorded tups as it gives a bit of a safety net rather than just buy the best looking ram there. He refuses to look at texels now as he had one that was just a pet somewhere looked the part on sale day but that was it, would walk up to you in the middle of the summer wondering when you were going to feed it. So that one breeder or like you say feeder has put him of the breed all together.
I imagine on farm sales help as your not in a pen beside a bunch that have had feed coming out of their ears since they were born. Then if it is a sale of recorded pedigrees you would hope there would be none there that have had feed coming out their ears since they were born.

 

[DB67]

Blackies have always been big money.

Sometimes it pays off, sometimes it doesn't. Disagree when you say it gives us a bad image.

 

[d.iainm]

Blackies have always been big money.

Sometimes it pays off, sometimes it doesn't. Disagree when you say it gives us a bad image.

I think it does when it is always the poor hill farmer that is after more cash of the government. I am a crofter I keep blackies but I work in a totally unrelated industry and this is what is said to me by people I work with. why do you lot need subsidies you sell sheep for thousands

Out of interest are the tups performance recorded