Answering questions about western Canadian sheep industry

[Saskatchewan shepherd]

Hello, i am a pasture manager / sheep worker from Saskatchewan, Canada. I care for approximately 3200 head of mixed ewes, that are brought to me from many different ranches, for about 6 months on 6240 ac of native prairie / mixed grasslands on what is know as "crown agriculture lands". During the "off" season i help on a 600 head commercial goat ranch for kidding season and have stake in a 100 ewe operation with my family.
I was hoping to use this forum as a way to create connections with people in the Scottish sheep industry for personal reasons, and possibly visiting as my wife and I have ancestry from Scotland.
If you have any questions at all on the sheep industry in Western Canada, please feel free to reply to this thread and ill do my best to give you a no nonsense answer right from the ground level. Could be about government, prices, land, grazing, management, health etc. I look forward to meeting you.

 

[JockCroft]

Hello, i am a pasture manager / sheep worker from Saskatchewan, Canada. I care for approximately 3200 head of mixed ewes, that are brought to me from many different ranches, for about 6 months on 6240 ac of native prairie / mixed grasslands on what is know as "crown agriculture lands". During the "off" season i help on a 600 head commercial goat ranch for kidding season and have stake in a 100 ewe operation with my family.
I was hoping to use this forum as a way to create connections with people in the Scottish sheep industry for personal reasons, and possibly visiting as my wife and I have ancestry from Scotland.
If you have any questions at all on the sheep industry in Western Canada, please feel free to reply to this thread and ill do my best to give you a no nonsense answer right from the ground level. Could be about government, prices, land, grazing, management, health etc. I look forward to meeting you.

Be very interesting to hear how your systems and breeds fit into the environment, and how they are marketed.
I have a lot of Canadian relatives. Pity is that as time goes by we are we are hopeless at keeping in contact. Iam in North Scotland.

 

[Welderloon]

Welcome, where in Scotland is the ancestry located?

 

[soapsud]

Hello, i am a pasture manager / sheep worker from Saskatchewan, Canada. I care for approximately 3200 head of mixed ewes, that are brought to me from many different ranches, for about 6 months on 6240 ac of native prairie / mixed grasslands on what is know as "crown agriculture lands". During the "off" season i help on a 600 head commercial goat ranch for kidding season and have stake in a 100 ewe operation with my family.
I was hoping to use this forum as a way to create connections with people in the Scottish sheep industry for personal reasons, and possibly visiting as my wife and I have ancestry from Scotland.
If you have any questions at all on the sheep industry in Western Canada, please feel free to reply to this thread and ill do my best to give you a no nonsense answer right from the ground level. Could be about government, prices, land, grazing, management, health etc. I look forward to meeting you.

Is the Off season when your ewes come in or go to warmer pastures?
Cammy a scottish youtube shepherd visited an Orkney Island shepherd a while back who kept his in all winter.

 

[Saskatchewan shepherd]

Be very interesting to hear how your systems and breeds fit into the environment, and how they are marketed.
I have a lot of Canadian relatives. Pity is that as time goes by we are we are hopeless at keeping in contact. Iam in North Scotland.

We don't have a stratification method right now like the UK but i have put out the request to people in the provincial government for a greater index of nutritional data from native plant species.

The level of organization regarding breed and age is almost none existant according to the natural forage. Basically, everything from an Icelandic to a texel is run on the same type of grass. This is to save on labor cost and to protect against predators. Theres some good to it but also some bad.
When sheep farmers bring their stock to me for the first time (season) they normally don't do well because they are not "hefted" to the environment. Our environment is very deadly to all breeds that haven't been "hefted"

As for our local markets, we have one peak in about June - July. So those lambing in the beginning of February (in our cold climate) try for a "light feeder" market 80-90 lbs. Respectively. People that make this sacrifice have advantage in the spring to work on hay production and other aspects of ranching. Some markets are contracts where your best finished lambs can fetch 300 - 400 dollars. Private on farm selling is around 200 - 300 currently.
Thanks for the question, let me know if you would like anything expanded on.

 

[unlacedgecko]

So you use lgd? What breeds? What ratio dogs to ewes?

 

[Saskatchewan shepherd]

Welcome, where in Scotland is the ancestry located?

Welcome, where in Scotland is the ancestry located?

I am not sure exactly, my oldest Scottish ancestor is Alexander Mcgillivray, he was a fur trader for the North West Company that founded a few small towns in northern Saskatchewan. The wife's great grandmother painted a portrait of .. i believe killchurn ? Castle that she remembers looking at when she was a child.

 

[Saskatchewan shepherd]

So you use lgd? What breeds? What ratio dogs to ewes?

Absolutely, everyone is using dogs. The breed is some what of a mystery in most cases so we refer to them as "the white dogs"
Breeds that i prefer in my location are Akbash, great pyrenees, and a cross between them. We have had some kangel and anatolian, and crossing between many breeds.
The ratio depends on many factors. I feel 12 with 2-3 in reserves is good for 3200 in my location but i have been successful with only 6.
Thanks for the question please ask more if ya like.

 

[Saskatchewan shepherd]

Is the Off season when your ewes come in or go to warmer pastures?
Cammy a scottish youtube shepherd visited an Orkney Island shepherd a while back who kept his in all winter.

The large flock of 3200 go back to their owners for lambing, they will return to me May 1st.
Yes i watch cammy sometimes, 130 years ago some shepherds would graze the sagebrush over the winter if hay stacks were low. This last season most people were able to graze (in my area) for 9 months

 

[unlacedgecko]

Absolutely, everyone is using dogs. The breed is some what of a mystery in most cases so we refer to them as "the white dogs"
Breeds that i prefer in my location are Akbash, great pyrenees, and a cross between them. We have had some kangel and anatolian, and crossing between many breeds.
The ratio depends on many factors. I feel 12 with 2-3 in reserves is good for 3200 in my location but i have been successful with only 6.
Thanks for the question please ask more if ya like.

My phone number is in my signature (turn phone sideways to view). I'd like to connect on WhatsApp. Please message me there.

 

[egbert]

Absolutely, everyone is using dogs. The breed is some what of a mystery in most cases so we refer to them as "the white dogs"
Breeds that i prefer in my location are Akbash, great pyrenees, and a cross between them. We have had some kangel and anatolian, and crossing between many breeds.
The ratio depends on many factors. I feel 12 with 2-3 in reserves is good for 3200 in my location but i have been successful with only 6.
Thanks for the question please ask more if ya like.

ah....cultural differences.
It sounds like your dogs are 'herd protection' breeds, which we generally don't need in the UK
after we got rid of major predators, our farm dogs specialised into collie type herding dogs, as opposed to protection/dual purpose dogs.
alarmingly, wolf numbers in Europe are being allowed to proliferate- with misguided greenie laws- which is seeing a resurgence of big bitey hounds.

 

[Saskatchewan shepherd]

ah....cultural differences.
It sounds like your dogs are 'herd protection' breeds, which we generally don't need in the UK
after we got rid of major predators, our farm dogs specialised into collie type herding dogs, as opposed to protection/dual purpose dogs.
alarmingly, wolf numbers in Europe are being allowed to proliferate- with misguided greenie laws- which is seeing a resurgence of big bitey hounds.

I agree, i do have 5 border collies, i use 2 mainly. I try to teach the "do gooders" how the balance works on the land in relationships to predation. Its very difficult to explain "death" to people that don't see it every day. We have bear wolves, cougar, badgers, fox, eagles, vaulters that kill but 95% is coyotes. i work with a special hunter, employed by our provincial crop insurance, to help keep the sheep safe. We shoot and trap problem predators. "Greenie -laws" as you call them/it, believe that ranchers and people similar too me are destroying land and call upon government to have more oversight of our operations. Luckily we are still in power at this time but! With our current administration, we are seeing a shift towards more top down control.

 

[unlacedgecko]

These are the white dogs I saw in the US last year. Mainly ahkbash, but some other breeds in there too. They will kill coyotes and loose dogs.

 

[Saskatchewan shepherd]

These are the white dogs I saw in the US last year. Mainly ahkbash, but some other breeds in there too. They will kill coyotes and loose dogs.

I am not an expert in dog breeds but my visual que of the picture tells me that the pup has identical markings to an anatolian/akbash cross, the mother's black snout is half the mask of a kangel and the pointed nose reveals a type of shepherd. The length of the body is indicative of some akbash breeds here although the blonde colors in indication of a colored pyrenees. As for our "white dogs" killing predators, it is a rare occurrence. The ladder has been true in the majority of my personal experiences. Coyote are beginning to run in packs that overwhelm the white dogs. What is most commonplace is a stand off where i am left with a 400$ vet bill. Technically, it is illegal for any domesticated dog to kill or chase wildlife in Canada although authorities look the other way or simply don't have time or resources to follow up on a charge. Luckily, we are still allowed to shoot coyote all year. One of our sayings is "shoot!, shovel!, and shut up!"

 

[unlacedgecko]

Are these 3200 ewes run as 1 mob? What months do you have them? Lambs at foot?

Are they folded behind electric fencing or do you live on the range with them as a herder? Ratio of ewes per herder?

 

[Saskatchewan shepherd]

Until recently the tradition was to run a dry flock and a wet flock, wet flock meaning lamb at foot. There may be circumstances that required all to be together but it is not common anymore. This is in part to the stocking rates, density and distribution on a rotational grazing system. traditional dates are May1st to October 15th.
Last season 5 flock were run in total at various times in the season. This would be 4 breeding flocks and 1 grazing flock
Lambs are taken home September 1st and rams entered the pastures Aug 1st and Aug 18th.
Lastly, we are behind 7 strand barb wire for the majority and a bit of woven wire mesh. I care for everything by myself...

 

[egbert]

I agree, i do have 5 border collies, i use 2 mainly. I try to teach the "do gooders" how the balance works on the land in relationships to predation. Its very difficult to explain "death" to people that don't see it every day. We have bear wolves, cougar, badgers, fox, eagles, vaulters that kill but 95% is coyotes. i work with a special hunter, employed by our provincial crop insurance, to help keep the sheep safe. We shoot and trap problem predators. "Greenie -laws" as you call them/it, believe that ranchers and people similar too me are destroying land and call upon government to have more oversight of our operations. Luckily we are still in power at this time but! With our current administration, we are seeing a shift towards more top down control.

We're 'lucky' here that the 'rewilding' nutjobs haven't managed to convince gov (yet) to reintroduce large land predators. There are already areas now infested with reintroduced sea eagles.
Our whole farm policy is heading in their direction though. Happily it is also including paying arable farmers to reduce production in a big way.....and that is about to have a very significant impact. Tell your guys to sow plenty....cos we'll be buying more than ever by next fall.

In continental Europe, most govs have simply protected predator species in recent years, and the wolves and bears have moved across from further East. The alpine pasturing system I occasionally go and help with has been hit although devolved gov there is kicking back. The Spanish are quite deft at SSS....although the last instruction is sometimes forgotten, and the offending wolf hung from street furniture overnight! On the northern German plains and into Holland it's esp bad at the minute, with hideous scenes.
An urban population mass who are very far removed from reality has become indoctrinated with the rewilding fantasy.


Where in Saskatchewan are you?
I hitched from Halifax to Vancouver when I was a lad, and spent a week driving a grain truck near Wiseton, South of Saskatoon.

 

[Hill Ground]

So you just summer these sheep? They come to you after they have lambed, and then go home (presumably to sheds?) in the winter, when the grass runs out/snow on the ground?

Why not own some ewes of your own?

 

[JockCroft]

We don't have a stratification method right now like the UK but i have put out the request to people in the provincial government for a greater index of nutritional data from native plant species.

The level of organization regarding breed and age is almost none existant according to the natural forage. Basically, everything from an Icelandic to a texel is run on the same type of grass. This is to save on labor cost and to protect against predators. Theres some good to it but also some bad.
When sheep farmers bring their stock to me for the first time (season) they normally don't do well because they are not "hefted" to the environment. Our environment is very deadly to all breeds that haven't been "hefted"

As for our local markets, we have one peak in about June - July. So those lambing in the beginning of February (in our cold climate) try for a "light feeder" market 80-90 lbs. Respectively. People that make this sacrifice have advantage in the spring to work on hay production and other aspects of ranching. Some markets are contracts where your best finished lambs can fetch 300 - 400 dollars. Private on farm selling is around 200 - 300 currently.
Thanks for the question, let me know if you would like anything expanded on.

Hi. Where about in Sask. are you based? Loads of questions, temperature's? Snow load? Lambing dates?Predators?

Interested in your forage comment's. What are your options other than grass/hay? Are some of your stock health problems mineral/vitamin deficiency. What are the parasite problems?

Being in a coastal low ground area, our biggest problems are around wind and rain, But today the sun is shining.

 

[Saskatchewan shepherd]

We're 'lucky' here that the 'rewilding' nutjobs haven't managed to convince gov (yet) to reintroduce large land predators. There are already areas now infested with reintroduced sea eagles.
Our whole farm policy is heading in their direction though. Happily it is also including paying arable farmers to reduce production in a big way.....and that is about to have a very significant impact. Tell your guys to sow plenty....cos we'll be buying more than ever by next fall.

In continental Europe, most govs have simply protected predator species in recent years, and the wolves and bears have moved across from further East. The alpine pasturing system I occasionally go and help with has been hit although devolved gov there is kicking back. The Spanish are quite deft at SSS....although the last instruction is sometimes forgotten, and the offending wolf hung from street furniture overnight! On the northern German plains and into Holland it's esp bad at the minute, with hideous scenes.
An urban population mass who are very far removed from reality has become indoctrinated with the rewilding fantasy.


Where in Saskatchewan are you?
I hitched from Halifax to Vancouver when I was a lad, and spent a week driving a grain truck near Wiseton, South of Saskatoon.

Yeah i live in the areas you mentioned, i travel about 4 hours in every direction for work but mainly south in traditional grazing country.