Are fungicides more harmful than insecticides

[PSQ]

I think that multiple small applications of non-systemic fungicides, e.g. Folpet, CTL (RIP), applied preventatively to each major leaf as it emerges, is a viable strategy.

2015, the high yielding year when a certain national serviced agronomy company ran out of SDHI products in the north, and substituted them with Folpet.
The results were startlingly clear, the difference between SDHI and Folpet treated wheat crops was in excess of 1 tonne/ha in favour of SDHI’s, and this was repeated across the Borders on multiple farms.

As for treating Extase with a lean mixture of ineffective fungicides, FFS, just don’t. It’s proved itself to have great disease resistance, and will continue to do so right up the point they name a disease race after it.

 

[sjt01]

Any feed company. I got mine through Mole Valley
You'll need to be able to accept a minimum 5,000L delivery. I bought the basic spec, but you can get flowable grades which might be easier to work with.

Also available in IBC (I think ours came from For Farmers). We just need a little on youngstock feed, and a bulk delivery was too much at current prices. I am just hoping they go down again.

 

[BuskhillFarm]

What you guys need is GM wheat that can resist these diseases properly. We shouldn't even be having the conversation about rusts or BYDV because the genes for resistance are already out there.

If we go GM will it then bring up other problems of resistance?

 

[ollie989898]

If we go GM will it then bring up other problems of resistance?

Ask the farmers worldwide how they are getting on, but don't worry there will always be something for the big companies to sell you. Stacked traits for X,Y and Z will be sold just as they sell seed dressings and chemicals today, don't you worry. They will all get their pound of flesh out of you one way or the other.

 

[BuskhillFarm]

Ask the farmers worldwide how they are getting on, but don't worry there will always be something for the big companies to sell you. Stacked traits for X,Y and Z will be sold just as they sell seed dressings and chemicals today, don't you worry. They will all get their pound of flesh out of you one way or the other.

I honestly don’t know what to believe these days, ploughing for mellineums now it’s bad, modern pesticides are bad, gm is bad….
On paper GM and zero till, organic is the way to go for environment.
Even modern grass is bad when trying to take 4-5 cuts off it.

 

[Timbo1080]

Soil fauna is so delicately balanced, any foreign chemical applied to the soil (even fertiliser) will upset it.

Didn't carbendazim go for this reason? I think CTL also but in this case I suspect it was more of 'let's find a reason to ban it so we don't have to pay for approvals any more'.

Carbendazim is exactly the reason I started looking to find out more about the effects of fungicides on soil Flora & fauna. I was our local cricket ground’s Groundsman for 12 years from 2006….we used it to kill worms on the cricket square. 2008 I was spraying it on Rape for Sclerotinia and the penny dropped. I believe in the end, that it was banned as it was identified as an endocrine disrupter…..great stuff to be applying to a cricket square where the cricket ball was constantly rolling across the grass and being picked up and basically licked by the players.

 

[Hindsight]

Carbendazim is exactly the reason I started looking to find out more about the effects of fungicides on soil Flora & fauna. I was our local cricket ground’s Groundsman for 12 years from 2006….we used it to kill worms on the cricket square. 2008 I was spraying it on Rape for Sclerotinia and the penny dropped. I believe in the end, that it was banned as it was identified as an endocrine disrupter…..great stuff to be applying to a cricket square where the cricket ball was constantly rolling across the grass and being picked up and basically licked by the players.

Does that explain the England batting and bowling let alone inability to catch a ball down under. I reckon the problem at moment is the England players are standng on their heads as it is upside down down under.

 

[ajd132]

The fact that most farmers think a high dose of fungicide is a anti resistance strategy is also pretty shocking.

 

[teslacoils]

I honestly don’t know what to believe these days, ploughing for mellineums now it’s bad, modern pesticides are bad, gm is bad….
On paper GM and zero till, organic is the way to go for environment.
Even modern grass is bad when trying to take 4-5 cuts off it.

For every expert opinion, there is an equal and opposite expert opinion. This balance can only be tipped in one direction by the flow of research funding. The trend is always your friend.

 

[cquick]

2015, the high yielding year when a certain national serviced agronomy company ran out of SDHI products in the north, and substituted them with Folpet.
The results were startlingly clear, the difference between SDHI and Folpet treated wheat crops was in excess of 1 tonne/ha in favour of SDHI’s, and this was repeated across the Borders on multiple farms.

As for treating Extase with a lean mixture of ineffective fungicides, FFS, just don’t. It’s proved itself to have great disease resistance, and will continue to do so right up the point they name a disease race after it.

I agree that in a conventional T0/1/2 approach, using CTL/folpet alone is utter pants.
It needs to be considered more like a blight programme, painting new leaf with chem as it comes out and watching the forecast closely. I'm not aiming to kill any established fungus, simply to stop it ever getting a foothold.

Low rates of multi-sites are, as @ajd132 alluded to, a better anti-resistance strategy than a high dose of modern chemistry. Not saying it's great by any means, but in my eyes it's a fair trade-off. Remember that the more lethal an agent you apply, the greater selection pressure is for circumventing it.

 

[Bogweevil]

Just gonna leave this here:

IODUS​

37 g/l laminarin

MAPP No.19163​

As a registered fungicide for the control of septoria and reduction of powdery mildew in winter wheat, IODUS contains laminarin as the active ingredient, which is sourced from natural plant extracts, creating a powerful yet sustainable biocontrol product, with no buffer zones and zero residue.

IODUS works as an elicitor, which means it triggers a plant’s own natural defences against harmful pathogens. Used at T0 timing IODUS will help to reduce disease pressure and systemically activate the young plant’s self defence systems, including in newly formed tissue as the plant grows.

 

[ajd132]

Just gonna leave this here:

IODUS​

37 g/l laminarin

MAPP No.19163​

As a registered fungicide for the control of septoria and reduction of powdery mildew in winter wheat, IODUS contains laminarin as the active ingredient, which is sourced from natural plant extracts, creating a powerful yet sustainable biocontrol product, with no buffer zones and zero residue.

IODUS works as an elicitor, which means it triggers a plant’s own natural defences against harmful pathogens. Used at T0 timing IODUS will help to reduce disease pressure and systemically activate the young plant’s self defence systems, including in newly formed tissue as the plant grows.

That’s a bio stimulant, they have to register now don’t they?

 

[Bogweevil]

That’s a bio stimulant, they have to register now don’t they?

Grey area. Must register and provide evidence if making pesticide claims. If no suitable evidence and not making pesticide claims fertiliser regulations may apply. Fertiliser regulations possibly changing in 2025 to require proof of claims.

 

[colhonk]

I am finding more and more that NO , They are not very harmfull to what they are supposed to kill these days, so why would they be harmfull to anything else

 

[willy]

I am finding more and more that NO , They are not very harmfull to what they are supposed to kill these days, so why would they be harmfull to anything else

A bit like antibiotics then, it take the gut 2 years to recover from one dose of antibiotics.... Make you think

 

[juke]

Tried iodus this spring gone, seemed effective but septoria pressure didn't raise its head till much later in the season, interesting that plant breeders have been focusing on septoria resistance on new varieties coming forward, did they have an idea 10 15 years ago that ctl would be going the journey

 

[Flatlander]

This could be due to the fungicide killing mycorrhizal fungi or other species in the rhizosphere, where you would reasonably expect a systemic fungicide to be excreted. The resultant mineralisation of nutrients would cause a yield increase. In other words, I would see a yield increase in the absence of disease, to be a bad thing. It shows that there is something going on that we don't fully understand!

I think that multiple small applications of non-systemic fungicides, e.g. Folpet, CTL (RIP), applied preventatively to each major leaf as it emerges, is a viable strategy. This way you can use reduced rates as all the chemical has to do is inhibit spore germination. Back when it was legal I used 0.6 CTL four or five times through the season, with 10 - 20 day timings depending on the weather conditions. I had to add a sniff of Teb occasionally for any rust foci, but otherwise it was a very clean and cost effective strategy, coming in at less than £30/ha. The only downside is you need to have the sprayer capacity to get over all your area at short notice.

This year I plan to do similar, with 4 applications of half rate Folpet, 1kg elemental sulphur and 1L molasses. My varieties are Extase, Theodore and Graham. If the season starts to break down I can always bring in the 'firehose' chemicals at short notice.

Molasses ?? What’s the thinking behind this. Heard of it on soybean inoculant to feed the bacteria but not ad a fungicide additive

 

[juke]

Molasses ?? What’s the thinking behind this. Heard of it on soybean inoculant to feed the bacteria but not ad a fungicide additive

It can help improve efficacy if it's the right stuff is the thinking.

 

[Flatlander]

It can help improve efficacy if it's the right stuff is the thinking.

So are we talking human food grade or regular animal grade.

 

[juke]

So are we talking human food grade or regular animal grade.

Depends who you talk to as to what you use, not sure there is an exact science too it yet.