Are their any other zero till drills (with a similar tine as used on the Amazone Condor drill) available in the uk?

[topcat2006]

IMO what you do to establish a crop changes year upon year. We started with a Claydon and a stubble rake and a set of rolls. We thought this would be all we need.

We then found that due to relying on co tractors to do liquid fert and spraying we would get deep tramlines - so a flatlift was bought. We then bought a spreader so we could do our own fert and try and get rid of some of those wheelings.

Next on the list was a Simba X-Press - bought as we felt that we were not getting enough tilth with the stubble rake to germinate BG. On the whole this has been a good tool for this purpose and as it has the ST toolbar it does a good job of levelling out tramlines.

One of the things we have learnt is that flexibility is the key and what works one year may not the next.

Next step is probably going to be a disc drill along the lines of the DSX.

 

[Suddy]

The improvements in your OM levels must be down to you standing in the middle of a field, broadcasting sh1te with your mouth.

Give yourself a slap.

????I must of rattled someone. If I’m talking sh!t I must be talking the same sh!t as the judges who have award me soil conservation awards over the years. ???now who looks a tit.

 

[Suddy]

Seedhawk and rapid

 

[Andrew K]

I ask, as the above tine is a superb tool for zero till seeding, in stony soil conditions as long as drill is driven slowly, tines pushes stones to one side allowing seed to be planted in to soil,rather than a disc coulter "RIDDING OVER THE STONE LEAVING SEED ON THE SURFACE!!!!". Have Vaderstaad stopped making their tined zero till drill , is the Simtech Aitchison drill any good "DRIVEN SLOWLY"?
I only ask as a retired on looker ,as zero till must be the way forward on many soil types, BUT I would think changing to Zero till on "VERY HEAVY STRUCTURELESS CLAY IN ONE SEASON" would be a financial disaster ,it does not look that easy on Cotswold brash.
I look forward to your comments ,even if you ask why I am I asking !!!
Sorry but I like to keep up to date with forward thinking farming techniques even though not farming any more.

KRM sell the 1909 Sola drill here, and have done for 5 yrs or more. Looks similar to the Weaving Sabre Tine, but not quite as heavy.

 

[Dukes Fit]

????I must of rattled someone. If I’m talking sh!t I must be talking the same sh!t as the judges who have award me soil conservation awards over the years. ???now who looks a tit.

You haven’t rattled me at all. I just find your attitude rather small minded and condescending.

You’ve harped on about how you have to move soil on heavy ground to get a tilth and in the same post speak about how soil needs time to be ready for zero till so you can’t just go straight in with a 750a. You then attempted to ridicule @Brisel for using a Claydon when he has said in the past that he is using it as a stepping stone to no till i.e preparing the soil for the change in system.

“You are never going to improve your soil structure or increase your OM with drills that move a lot of soil.” Guess what, I’ve seen an improvement in our soils over 3 years using a Mzuri compared to a plough/PH combi system, probably because it’s moving less soil as you so strongly advocate.

Then you try and prove your authority by speaking about awards you’ve won, which nobody really gives a donkeys about.

So the person that looks like a tit is you.

 

[Suddy]

You haven’t rattled me at all. I just find your attitude rather small minded and condescending.

You’ve harped on about how you have to move soil on heavy ground to get a tilth and in the same post speak about how soil needs time to be ready for zero till so you can’t just go straight in with a 750a. You then attempted to ridicule @Brisel for using a Claydon when he has said in the past that he is using it as a stepping stone to no till i.e preparing the soil for the change in system.

“You are never going to improve your soil structure or increase your OM with drills that move a lot of soil.” Guess what, I’ve seen an improvement in our soils over 3 years using a Mzuri compared to a plough/PH combi system, probably because it’s moving less soil as you so strongly advocate.

Then you try and prove your authority by speaking about awards you’ve won, which nobody really gives a donkeys about.

So the person that looks like a tit is you.

There’s a lot of difference between your drill/Claydon and the seedhawk. I move about 1.5”x1.5” of soil every 10”. I started of with a brand new Claydon thinking it was a DD. After two years it was pointed out that the reasons for my crop failures on the heavy land was due to moving too much soil. So I swallowed my pride and sent it back and bought a secondhand seedhawk. The best decision I ever did.
these drills are not a stepping stone with the wide feet on in my experience. The most important thing to get right going into DD is soil chemistry.
If that not right don’t bother .
your soils have improved because you haven’t inverted the soil. There will be a point when your soils don’t improve anymore because your destroying the structure also mineralising nutrients and burning your OM off. your only prolonging the time your soil needs to adjust.
I ll shut up cos I don’t know what I’m on about?
All the best
Join BASE

 

[Brisel]

There’s a lot of difference between your drill/Claydon and the seedhawk. I move about 1.5”x1.5” of soil every 10”. I started of with a brand new Claydon thinking it was a DD. After two years it was pointed out that the reasons for my crop failures on the heavy land was due to moving too much soil. So I swallowed my pride and sent it back and bought a secondhand seedhawk. The best decision I ever did.
these drills are not a stepping stone with the wide feet on in my experience. The most important thing to get right going into DD is soil chemistry.
If that not right don’t bother .
your soils have improved because you haven’t inverted the soil. There will be a point when your soils don’t improve anymore because your destroying the structure also mineralising nutrients and burning your OM off. your only prolonging the time your soil needs to adjust.
I ll shut up cos I don’t know what I’m on about?
All the best
Join BASE

I don’t doubt your credentials but hubris is not a good trait. You neglected to mention that you used to strip till too. With a Claydon, no less. Be a bit more constructive and you may find that people engage with you better.

 

[Suddy]

I don’t doubt your credentials but hubris is not a good trait. You neglected to mention that you used to strip till too. With a Claydon, no less. Be a bit more constructive and you may find that people engage with you better.

Will do. ?someone needs to be blunt on here. Cheers

 

[YELROM]

Seedhawk and rapid

Do you DD with the Rapid and if you do has it replaced the Moores you had

 

[jh.]

on heavy soils though you should try a Novag, it will be able to cope with more trash than any tine drill can and will close slots on heavy soils. Importantly for heavy soils it has the weight and straight disc you need to not leave soil on the surface

As much as I like the look and theory of the novag , for 4m they are very close to twice the price of an avatar . Surely pricing like that will put a lot of people off ?

 

[Warnesworth]

I meant for example a father and son team who are ploughing and combi drilling with older equipment will have a very low fixed cost structure in place. For them to move into a no-till system with a proper no-till drill such as a cross slot or sly will increase their costs ten fold.

Only if 'the father and son' are duped into buying one of the multitude of unnecessarily expensive and heavy drill's being paraded around. plenty of very cheap and very good alternatives out there...

 

[Warnesworth]

Is this coming from someone who has a Claydon and cultivates in front it. ??Why are you commenting on a DD forum when you haven’t got the balls to do it yourself. Perhaps if you spent more time out of office in a field rather than talking rubbish on here you might get experience.
I’ve cut my N by at least a third, I spend very little on fung if any and in 10 years of DD used a insecticide Once. Use only small amount of slug pellets on rape only. The OM is around 6.5 even on the heavy land as the Haney tests have shown. We also apply a lot of gypsum to push the high magnesium out. Our soils are fantastic.
Imagination. look in the mirror

I think you forgot to mention 'Soil farmer of the Year' Richard!

 

[Warnesworth]

IMO what you do to establish a crop changes year upon year. We started with a Claydon and a stubble rake and a set of rolls. We thought this would be all we need.

We then found that due to relying on co tractors to do liquid fert and spraying we would get deep tramlines - so a flatlift was bought. We then bought a spreader so we could do our own fert and try and get rid of some of those wheelings.

Next on the list was a Simba X-Press - bought as we felt that we were not getting enough tilth with the stubble rake to germinate BG. On the whole this has been a good tool for this purpose and as it has the ST toolbar it does a good job of levelling out tramlines.

One of the things we have learnt is that flexibility is the key and what works one year may not the next.

Next step is probably going to be a disc drill along the lines of the DSX.

So you're cultivating to get rid of the tramlines which are caused by the cultivation...

 

[Warnesworth]

As much as I like the look and theory of the novag , for 4m they are very close to twice the price of an avatar . Surely pricing like that will put a lot of people off ?

The weight of the machine and the horsepower required to pull it should put you off, especially on heavier soils, other drills can do an equal if not better job.

 

[topcat2006]

So you're cultivating to get rid of the tramlines which are caused by the cultivation...

No - we are cultivating to get rid of tramlines caused by a contractor who has too much work to be able to apply chemicals when the field is fit. We have changed co tractors and already see the need for this dramatically decreasing.

 

[Warnesworth]

Do you DD with the Rapid and if you do has it replaced the Moores you had

At the risk of speaking for @Suddy. Yes - zero-till with the Rapid. No system disc.

 

[Warnesworth]

I don’t doubt your credentials but hubris is not a good trait. You neglected to mention that you used to strip till too. With a Claydon, no less. Be a bit more constructive and you may find that people engage with you better.

With all due respect to those involved, I would say that of @Suddy 's many traits, hubris is not one of them. To me it reads as he talks, which is direct and to the point. No problem with that.

@Suddy farms some difficult soils, with elevation and northerly latitude (although Aberdeenshire is another giant leap from Durham) thrown in for good measure. The whole family took a giant business leap in trusting the system a few years back and their faith and dedication to the system is reaping rewards. They have kept their feet firmly on the pedal of CA, and were the proof to me (I was lucky enough to be introduced to them early on into their soil journey) that if the system can work there, it can work anyway.

 

[Dukes Fit]

There’s a lot of difference between your drill/Claydon and the seedhawk. I move about 1.5”x1.5” of soil every 10”. I started of with a brand new Claydon thinking it was a DD. After two years it was pointed out that the reasons for my crop failures on the heavy land was due to moving too much soil. So I swallowed my pride and sent it back and bought a secondhand seedhawk. The best decision I ever did.
these drills are not a stepping stone with the wide feet on in my experience. The most important thing to get right going into DD is soil chemistry.
If that not right don’t bother .
your soils have improved because you haven’t inverted the soil. There will be a point when your soils don’t improve anymore because your destroying the structure also mineralising nutrients and burning your OM off. your only prolonging the time your soil needs to adjust.
I ll shut up cos I don’t know what I’m on about?
All the best
Join BASE

I didn't say you didn't know what you're on about I said your attitude was condescending.
Be as enthusiastic as you like but realise that your experiences are yours and may not mirror those of others.

Try also not to make fun of those who are trying to make improvements but are doing it differently from your way. Especially when you have no idea of others soil types, climate or indeed financial situation.

There is no need for some "to be blunt on here" when it's supposed to be a forum to share and compare information.

 

[Warnesworth]

No - we are cultivating to get rid of tramlines caused by a contractor who has too much work to be able to apply chemicals when the field is fit. We have changed co tractors and already see the need for this dramatically decreasing.

Great.

Now drop the Claydon, straw rake, and the X-Press. Buy a tine drill (not a strip-till drill) to start and away you go. Deal with the blackgrass through a true CA system, not by trying to get it to grow in-between crops and your're there.

 

[juke]

does a Haney test work out soil om via loss on ignition ?