Back to minimum tillage ?

Smithjamesjohn

Member
Arable Farmer
We have a big issue with grass weeds and it’s getting worse. We are ok if we have a big spread of crops but it simply just doesn’t pay due to poor yields of spring crops such as spring linseed, spring barley, spring beans spring wheat. We’ve also tried grass but without our own livestock we get hammered on the selling price. We find ploughing isn’t helping and under Direct Drilling the problem is by far worse. Ryegrass, Blackgrass and Brome appear any time now in winter cereals and from late June in spring cereals. If we can’t grow cereals we might as well pack up.
We min tilled in the 90’s and 00’s and never had this issue. The soil movement got weed chits which we destroyed before drilling. We never used pre-em’s and just did a post em herb followed up with a clear up in the spring. Under DD we get a weed chit but I’m thinking we aren’t getting a full chit so when we run through with the direct drill seeding we are then germinating the dormant seeds that would of germinates had we moved the soil. We have used contractors with JD 750, Horsch Avatar and Horsch sprinter with Bourgault tines as well as our own Sabre Tine. They are all the same and germinate grass weeds. We have tried late drilling which does help but risky if it comes wet in late oct because then you can’t get on the fields. We’ve tried grazing a cover crop which doesn’t help either and is a loss leader without our own livestock.
So I’m thinking shallow min till disc and press straight after the combine, then spray off, then disc again and then spray off before a mid oct drilling? Anybody else in this mess?
 

Flat 10

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Fen Edge
Oh dear. I feel for you. We too have BG on almost all of the farm and it's a constant battle. I have never done true low disturbance DD like you so am not well placed to offer advice as I think for a lot of people the Ultra LD type of establishment you are doing is supposed to be the answer. I do know however that Claydons found that they need to put more soil disturbance in their system with a straw rake and a terrastar and a hoe to help manage Bg which is more along the lines you are thinking. You were lucky IMO to manage BG under min till, especially without pre-ems, a lot of the Sumo, Vad farmers were forced to change tack as despite pre-em stacks as long as your arm their crops were inundated with BG. i think you need to be flexible and perhaps try some as you suggest, but my concern would be it will be sloppy on top in a wet autumn and you won't get it drilled.
 

teslacoils

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
The concern about not getting it drilled in autumn is not as bad as the feeling from spraying it off in march. I'll admit mine has not been as successful as I'd like this year, but broadly the aim is seedbed as quick after harvest as possible. So work fine and roll it. Then just don't look at it until mid October. Drill it thick and out on as big a slug of flufenacet as you can.

If there's huge seed return etc the scrap the above, black it over once plenty has germinated, level it and come back in march.
 

Zippy768

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Dorset/Wilts
We have a big issue with grass weeds and it’s getting worse. We are ok if we have a big spread of crops but it simply just doesn’t pay due to poor yields of spring crops such as spring linseed, spring barley, spring beans spring wheat. We’ve also tried grass but without our own livestock we get hammered on the selling price. We find ploughing isn’t helping and under Direct Drilling the problem is by far worse. Ryegrass, Blackgrass and Brome appear any time now in winter cereals and from late June in spring cereals. If we can’t grow cereals we might as well pack up.
We min tilled in the 90’s and 00’s and never had this issue. The soil movement got weed chits which we destroyed before drilling. We never used pre-em’s and just did a post em herb followed up with a clear up in the spring. Under DD we get a weed chit but I’m thinking we aren’t getting a full chit so when we run through with the direct drill seeding we are then germinating the dormant seeds that would of germinates had we moved the soil. We have used contractors with JD 750, Horsch Avatar and Horsch sprinter with Bourgault tines as well as our own Sabre Tine. They are all the same and germinate grass weeds. We have tried late drilling which does help but risky if it comes wet in late oct because then you can’t get on the fields. We’ve tried grazing a cover crop which doesn’t help either and is a loss leader without our own livestock.
So I’m thinking shallow min till disc and press straight after the combine, then spray off, then disc again and then spray off before a mid oct drilling? Anybody else in this mess?
Maybe it's just the chemistry just isn't effective as it once was.
 

PSQ

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Scottish Borders
I do half my rotation as ‘non inversion’ (not min till but a deep Terrano rip) but I can’t get away from having to plough down grass weeds.
Bring back IPU and I think we’d consider DD, but without effective chemicals in the armoury it’s not on the radar.
As it is, full rate Palio (Broadway Star) did a poor job of controlling meadow brome in min till 1st wheat after min till OSR, but it won’t be a problem after ploughing down for 2nd wheat.
 
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Flat 10

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Fen Edge
The only way to beat BG, is to be anal about it.
It's not possible to beat it if you allow seed return at any point.
It's the odds n sods that survive the chemical that absolutely must be removed, otherwise they then seed and in not many years you've got a mess of resistance.
I think that’s possibly but you can get big wins on badly infested land by doing basics like very delayed drilling diverse rotation etc. I am very aware though that I’m merely standing still with it at tolerable levels rather than winning. Short of spraying off bug patches or paying lots of people to go rogueing I’m not sure I could ever beat it.
 

Badshot

Member
Location
Kent
I think that’s possibly but you can get big wins on badly infested land by doing basics like very delayed drilling diverse rotation etc. I am very aware though that I’m merely standing still with it at tolerable levels rather than winning. Short of spraying off bug patches or paying lots of people to go rogueing I’m not sure I could ever beat it.

You cant beat it. Ive been roguing for years and working at pretty much a constant level of cultivation depth and sometimes you just get years like this when it shafts you.
You can beat it.
I was heading into an irreversible situation.
It's taken 5-6 years . Total rotation change.
Total farm policy change

Doing what you've always done, or similar will never beat it, it's what got you in the situation in the first place.
 

Flat 10

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Fen Edge
You can beat it.
I was heading into an irreversible situation.
It's taken 5-6 years . Total rotation change.
Total farm policy change

Doing what you've always done, or similar will never beat it, it's what got you in the situation in the first place.
I’m not doing what I’ve always done. I should say I'm impressed with your ability to beat it, well done (y)
 
Last edited:

thorpe

Member
We have a big issue with grass weeds and it’s getting worse. We are ok if we have a big spread of crops but it simply just doesn’t pay due to poor yields of spring crops such as spring linseed, spring barley, spring beans spring wheat. We’ve also tried grass but without our own livestock we get hammered on the selling price. We find ploughing isn’t helping and under Direct Drilling the problem is by far worse. Ryegrass, Blackgrass and Brome appear any time now in winter cereals and from late June in spring cereals. If we can’t grow cereals we might as well pack up.
We min tilled in the 90’s and 00’s and never had this issue. The soil movement got weed chits which we destroyed before drilling. We never used pre-em’s and just did a post em herb followed up with a clear up in the spring. Under DD we get a weed chit but I’m thinking we aren’t getting a full chit so when we run through with the direct drill seeding we are then germinating the dormant seeds that would of germinates had we moved the soil. We have used contractors with JD 750, Horsch Avatar and Horsch sprinter with Bourgault tines as well as our own Sabre Tine. They are all the same and germinate grass weeds. We have tried late drilling which does help but risky if it comes wet in late oct because then you can’t get on the fields. We’ve tried grazing a cover crop which doesn’t help either and is a loss leader without our own livestock.
So I’m thinking shallow min till disc and press straight after the combine, then spray off, then disc again and then spray off before a mid oct drilling? Anybody else in this mess?
yes!
 

ajd132

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Suffolk
I think that’s possibly but you can get big wins on badly infested land by doing basics like very delayed drilling diverse rotation etc. I am very aware though that I’m merely standing still with it at tolerable levels rather than winning. Short of spraying off bug patches or paying lots of people to go rogueing I’m not sure I could ever beat it.
We have lost more money waiting for perfect late October drilling conditions than some blackgrass has cost us.
 

ajd132

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Suffolk
You can beat it.
I was heading into an irreversible situation.
It's taken 5-6 years . Total rotation change.
Total farm policy change

Doing what you've always done, or similar will never beat it, it's what got you in the situation in the first place.
Do you need to beat it? The old boys tell me it’s been here on this soil as long ad they can remember. Are we farming to for ego/pride and to win crop competitions or are we farming for margin short and long term?
 

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Man fined £300 for bonfire-related waste offences

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Written by William Kellett from Agriland

court-640x360.jpg
A man has pleaded guilty at Newtownards Magistrates’ Court to waste offences relating to a bonfire next to the electrical sub-station on the Circular Road in Newtownards, Co. Down.

Gareth Gill (51) of Abbot’s Walk, Newtownards pleaded guilty to two charges under the Waste and Contaminated Land (Northern Ireland) Order 1997, for which he was fined £150 each and ordered to pay a £15 offender’s levy

On June 25, 2018, PSNI officers went to Gill’s yard, where they found a large amount of waste consisting of scrap wood, pallets, carpet and underlay.

Discussion with Northern Ireland Environment Agency (NIEA) officers confirmed the site...
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