Base station to N-trip

[Northern farmer]

I don't really know tbh. I'm starting to think it is the agi4 receivers as we have two of them one with an internal modem roaming sim the other lh agro external modem. Both play up but more do the one with internal modem. I have tried a test signal from rtkf farming as i m getting a little tired of lh agros excuses and service. It seems alot better but still dropping out. It was terrible this morning drilling. Didn't miss a beat this afternoon. Any thoughts would be great.

It would be quite important to figure out if the issue is from cellular coverage or any other reason for losing the RTK correction signal or if the RTK correction signal is good but RTK fix is still misbehaving.

The X30 screen has a diagnosis app that shows cellular performance. Perhaps easier to check from the RTK correction signal page and follow the latency figure. Latency should stay below one or two seconds mostly. If it gets higher than a few seconds, then the issue is on the delivery of the RTK correction signal.

Our season has not started yet and I have not tried our AGI-4 but we've had every year a bit more often temporary RTK fix issues and in our case the correction signal is always 100% perfect. I have not seen any explanation for this and Topcon seems to have abandoned AGI-4 support completely. Our problem appears at the time of the day when the number of visible GPS satellites is lowest (even if under an open sky the number of satellites should be more than sufficient).

 

[Richard Smyth]

It would be quite important to figure out if the issue is from cellular coverage or any other reason for losing the RTK correction signal or if the RTK correction signal is good but RTK fix is still misbehaving.

The X30 screen has a diagnosis app that shows cellular performance. Perhaps easier to check from the RTK correction signal page and follow the latency figure. Latency should stay below one or two seconds mostly. If it gets higher than a few seconds, then the issue is on the delivery of the RTK correction signal.

Our season has not started yet and I have not tried our AGI-4 but we've had every year a bit more often temporary RTK fix issues and in our case the correction signal is always 100% perfect. I have not seen any explanation for this and Topcon seems to have abandoned AGI-4 support completely. Our problem appears at the time of the day when the number of visible GPS satellites is lowest (even if under an open sky the number of satellites should be more than sufficient).

My ag3000 is the same. Midday and either side of it can be a nightmare. Trimble in newer tractor is perfect

 

[Northern farmer]

My ag3000 is the same. Midday and either side of it can be a nightmare. Trimble in newer tractor is perfect

Interesting. We changed our second AGI-4 (AGCO/Fendt branded) to a Novatel and had no issues with that one. This was not explained by the higher number of constellations supported as I was mostly running the Novatel receiver from our old RTK base that only supports GPS and Glonass. Should make the Topcon AGI-4 provide the same performance as the new Novatel but that clearly isn't the case.

 

[Richard Smyth]

Interesting. We changed our second AGI-4 (AGCO/Fendt branded) to a Novatel and had no issues with that one. This was not explained by the higher number of constellations supported as I was mostly running the Novatel receiver from our old RTK base that only supports GPS and Glonass. Should make the Topcon AGI-4 provide the same performance as the new Novatel but that clearly isn't the case.

Definately not the agi4 isn’t in same league. I would get the novatel but no free fallback. The Trimble gives fallback for the occasional areas I have no cell service.

 

[Mounty]

We're loosing signal all the time at the moment with an AGI-3. Drive down to the field with loads of satellites and full signal, get in the middle of the field and nothing. LH Agro won't support it. I'd gladly pay decent money for someone to come out and see whats going wrong and upgrade if necessary but can't get any joy from anyone. Don't know what to do or what to go with now.

 

[Northern farmer]

We're loosing signal all the time at the moment with an AGI-3. Drive down to the field with loads of satellites and full signal, get in the middle of the field and nothing. LH Agro won't support it. I'd gladly pay decent money for someone to come out and see whats going wrong and upgrade if necessary but can't get any joy from anyone. Don't know what to do or what to go with now.

Someone might be better able to help if you clarified your correction signal. Are you perhaps using the free EGNOS or RTK? EGNOS could be about incorrect satellite PRNs or temporary outage or just poor visibility toward south. RTK has its own critical points.

 

[Mounty]

We're 2nd user of the machine which was on full RTK autosteer in another part of the UK. The RTK had expired and we have been running off EGNOS as only using it for lime spreading so basic accuracy was enough. Decided to give RTK2go a try on local NTRIP but still having issues. Only on EE sim looking to get a multi data sim once issues ironed out but feels like they never will.

 

[Northern farmer]

We're 2nd user of the machine which was on full RTK autosteer in another part of the UK. The RTK had expired and we have been running off EGNOS as only using it for lime spreading so basic accuracy was enough. Decided to give RTK2go a try on local NTRIP but still having issues. Only on EE sim looking to get a multi data sim once issues ironed out but feels like they never will.

I understand the base from RTK2GO is near enough (local). Have you figured out the set of RTCM correction messages this base is broadcasting? The AGI-4 at least does not work with messages that many other receivers find sufficient. I'm not familiar with AGI-3 if it works well with MSM messages that all recent receiver models need (to cover all GNSS constellations).

 

[Mounty]

RTCM3.2 and messages are 1005(1),1074(1),1084(1),1094(1),1124(1),1230(1). If the AGI-4 doesn't work with them, logically I'd guess the AGI-3 doesn't either? When we try to run on EGNOS we're getting the same losses. Ok for 10 minutes, then lose it for 30 mins.

 

[Northern farmer]

RTCM3.2 and messages are 1005(1),1074(1),1084(1),1094(1),1124(1),1230(1). If the AGI-4 doesn't work with them, logically I'd guess the AGI-3 doesn't either? When we try to run on EGNOS we're getting the same losses. Ok for 10 minutes, then lose it for 30 mins.

As said, I'm not familiar with the AGI-3 but I think someone at discourse.agopengps.com claimed AGI-3 working with MSM messages. Sounds odd but who knows. I'm afraid AGI-3 would need RTCM1008 (possibly 1007) equally as AGI-4. I'd pick up the stream and reformat it with RTKLIB if it helped.

If the receiver misbehaves with EGNOS, perhaps it would not work with any proper RTK signal either. I'm still puzzled how it fails. Is it losing EGNOS correction or losing "fix" even if EGNOS reaching the receiver?

 

[Mounty]

Difficult for me to answer all this correctly as I never see the screen and relying on messages from driver. Today it was only picking up GPS not even DGPS.

 

[Eddy6170]

It would be quite important to figure out if the issue is from cellular coverage or any other reason for losing the RTK correction signal or if the RTK correction signal is good but RTK fix is still misbehaving.

The X30 screen has a diagnosis app that shows cellular performance. Perhaps easier to check from the RTK correction signal page and follow the latency figure. Latency should stay below one or two seconds mostly. If it gets higher than a few seconds, then the issue is on the delivery of the RTK correction signal.

Our season has not started yet and I have not tried our AGI-4 but we've had every year a bit more often temporary RTK fix issues and in our case the correction signal is always 100% perfect. I have not seen any explanation for this and Topcon seems to have abandoned AGI-4 support completely. Our problem appears at the time of the day when the number of visible GPS satellites is lowest (even if under an open sky the number of satellites should be more than sufficient).

We have been using it today and it has been dropping out regularly again in to float rtk. Rtk and cell are all working correctly, the satellite count is good to but just drops out in the middle of a very big clear field. I have spoken to dealer of trimble today but talking of 10k a system to replace with a trimble that is with the steering wheel as well and variable seed. We have 3 of them. I feel like topcon have shafted us big style. Really don't know who to ask or what to fo now.

 

[Eddy6170]

It would be quite important to figure out if the issue is from cellular coverage or any other reason for losing the RTK correction signal or if the RTK correction signal is good but RTK fix is still misbehaving.

The X30 screen has a diagnosis app that shows cellular performance. Perhaps easier to check from the RTK correction signal page and follow the latency figure. Latency should stay below one or two seconds mostly. If it gets higher than a few seconds, then the issue is on the delivery of the RTK correction signal.

Our season has not started yet and I have not tried our AGI-4 but we've had every year a bit more often temporary RTK fix issues and in our case the correction signal is always 100% perfect. I have not seen any explanation for this and Topcon seems to have abandoned AGI-4 support completely. Our problem appears at the time of the day when the number of visible GPS satellites is lowest (even if under an open sky the number of satellites should be more than sufficient).

I would be interested if the x25 has the diagnostic app on it as it is running on that screen ATM. I have tried a signal from rtkf farming instead of lh agro to see if it is better but ATM there is nothing in it between them. The pictures attached show what it was doing when in float the other day.

 

[Eddy6170]

Difficult for me to answer all this correctly as I never see the screen and relying on messages from driver. Today it was only picking up GPS not even DGPS.

It seems like you may be having the same trouble as us. Why won't lh help you out? We are really stuck. Cost a massive amount to change them all to another system. It all seem to get bad just b4 Christmas for us. Never been the best tho tbh. But OK.

 

[Mounty]

Yep, seems so. LH don't seem interested unless its the most up to date kit thats still supported.
Causing us problems on every farm we go to. If we're not sorted by the end of this week it's all coming out, full auto steer as well. Planning to switch to AgOpenGPS.

 

[Eddy6170]

Yep, seems so. LH don't seem interested unless its the most up to date kit thats still supported.
Causing us problems on every farm we go to. If we're not sorted by the end of this week it's all coming out, full auto steer as well. Planning to switch to AgOpenGPS.

Not familiar with that, is that low accuracy. I don't think lh know what it is as I contacted them tow weeks ago about ours and sent them a diagnosis report. Have still heard nothing. I think it's because topcon have stopped the firmware upgrades to the agi4s. There is a glitch In there somewhere. Trouble is our latest one is only a year old.

 

[Mounty]

Full RTK but on a budget. Quite a bit of help and advice off here but I'm still learning. Thinking of going down that route with auto steer.
They didn't have a clue on our issue either and ended by saying no longer supported. I even asked LH if they'd quote me for a new receiver but they never called back so given up. Doesn't encourage you to upgrade your system with them.

 

[Eddy6170]

Full RTK but on a budget. Quite a bit of help and advice off here but I'm still learning. Thinking of going down that route with auto steer.
They didn't have a clue on our issue either and ended by saying no longer supported. I even asked LH if they'd quote me for a new receiver but they never called back so given up. Doesn't encourage you to upgrade your system with them.

All green star or trimble round here now. We also have a trimble system on range point and I must admit it is brilliant for a cheap single don't miss a beat. Drilled with 6m vaderstad this year spot on. If I change it will be trimble as they are investing alot of money in to it. Rangepoint is 2cm accuracy apparently. Same price as rtk.

 

[Mr Pea]

Having the same problems today here in East Yorkshire while drilling using a Topcon system. I must of lost RTK 5 times today, plenty of satellites and a good 2g data signal. It randomly goes into Float RTK in the middle of a field and then can take up to 20mins for full RTK. Very frustrating. RTK subscription provided by Peacock and Binnington. Spoke to them today and they said everything is good with the data signal. Something is clearly wrong here, there's a similar pattern building up.

 

[Northern farmer]

Would anyone have an opportunity to test an external antenna at the AGI-4 receiver? Since it seems no support from Topcon coming, it would be useful to eliminate the internal antenna performance from the list of possible issues. Just guessing based on the greenstar products that had to be changed because of sensitivity to 5G interference.

I find it unlikely that 5G interference would be an issue in the middle of a large field with clear sky view but who knows if a critical number of GPS satellites appear at a very low elevation?

Another guess would be Topcon sensitivity to GPS modernisation. No idea if the new signals at higher power too could confuse it. Nothing that could be done with this really, a SW update might solve it in the best case but seems the last SW update was released years ago.

If Topcon wants to stay in the business and continue selling new products, they would need to come with a clear message. I might purchase their new GNSS receiver but not if they show zero support for a product that was sold new just a few years ago (less than 5?). Gives zero confidence to their new products.

My backup plan is to use my AgOpenGPS GNSS receiver as a temporary source for the Topcon/AGCO screen. It should be very simple if terrain compensation was ignored. At the AgOpenGPS group, some experts are working on a solution to even integrate terrain compensation and gyro and provide a generic corrected NMEA stream. A less than £200 solution to replace the AGI-4 completely. Really a pity if/when AOG gives better support for their "competitors" than the actual product manufacturers can provide.