Beef cattle, numbers game or myth?

[Bossfarmer]

Are cattle now a numbers game with forklifts at 90k, tractors at 130k, contractor rates and repair costs now through the roof it strikes me that running a small herd or fattning number will struggle to pay for this let alone provide a profit, arent producers going to have to think bigger in terms of numbers much bigger? or get out

 

[Jonny B88]

Or….not base your system around depending on such expense! More than one way to skin a cat.

 

[Bossfarmer]

Or….not base your system around depending on such expense! More than one way to skin a cat.

True, very limited amount of money to be made that way though if you want to progress

 

[Chae1]

Are cattle now a numbers game with forklifts at 90k, tractors at 130k, contractor rates and repair costs now through the roof it strikes me that running a small herd or fattning number will struggle to pay for this let alone provide a profit, arent producers going to have to think bigger in terms of numbers much bigger? or get out

Don't need 90k forklifts and 130k tractors to finish cattle. Just finish them on grass.

Just need a few gates to gather them into and load on lorry.

 

[Bossfarmer]

Don't need 90k forklifts and 130k tractors to finish cattle. Just finish them on grass.

Just need a few gates to gather them into and load on lorry.

Mabye not to finish them, someone has to produce the calves though, this involves a lot of silage/material handling/ costs?

 

[Yale]

It all depends where you farm and how marginal the land is.

Also access to labour and what sort of set up you currently have.

Would anyone spend a big chunk of money on a set up now.

 

[Chae1]

Huge, but as someone has already said above, you've to cut your cloth accordingly.

If on the right land and with right breeds you could produce a store calf very cheaply.

You won't be topping the store calf sales, but probably better off.

 

[How Dairy]

I wouldn't be going into sucklers, I just don't see how it stacks up. I think the numbers game works on dairy beef as you can send in lorry loads as it gives you more control on price.

Contracts would be great!!! I'd like to know how much would be paid for finished animals when those animals are born. I'd definitely invest in facilities to keep calves if that were the case as TB would then be just a mild inconvenience

 

[Bossfarmer]

I wouldn't be going into sucklers, I just don't see how it stacks up. I think the numbers game works on dairy beef as you can send in lorry loads as it gives you more control on price.

Contracts would be great!!! I'd like to know how much would be paid for finished animals when those animals are born. I'd definitely invest in facilities to keep calves if that were the case as TB would then be just a mild inconvenience

I see what your saying about sucklers but with so many going out now surely store cattle will become scarce?

Dairy beef could be an opportunity they take a lot more feed to rear than sucklers though and make less through the store ring?

 

[Chae1]

Fudge your contracts.

Cost of inputs change so quickly. 2 day you might be making money at a finished price per kg. Next week it could be a terrible price.

Your just guaranteeing them supply when you sign a contract.

 

[How Dairy]

Also, intensive beef stacks up better than grazed IMO. Grazed beef is great for COP but you are gambling on beef price accommodating your product in 2 years time (a lot can happen). It also means the high winter cost of two winters. A Spring born calf would be dead by the following autumn in a grain fed system.

Numbers mean your ROWC (Return on working capital) is quicker.

 

[How Dairy]

I see what your saying about sucklers but with so many going out now surely store cattle will become scarce?

Dairy beef could be an opportunity they take a lot more feed to rear than sucklers though and make less through the store ring?

Do they take more feeding than sucklers though? The feeding of the suckler calf needs to take the feed demand of the dam for the year into account too. If her calving index is over 365 days, you need to take into account more feed than a year... plus the proportional cost of the bull split by the number of calves born to him.

I'd happily take less through the store ring and forego the cost of keeping a cow (a cow that loses a calf has her costs split across all of your stores).

 

[DrDunc]

Keeping suckler cows is now an expensive hobby

Supermarkets want contact reared dairy crosses with a known profit margin from fore quarter meat

There's more profit when selling cast cows off grass than from their prime stock offspring



Only reason they're still here is because without them I'd have no dung to grow forage brassicas for finishing tail end (profitable) fattening lambs

And because without a few sucklers, I'd struggle to justify all the expensive bits of machinery (toys) which are the real reason to farm, obviously

 

[Yale]

Keeping suckler cows is now an expensive hobby

Supermarkets want contact reared dairy crosses with a known profit margin from fore quarter meat

There's more profit when selling cast cows off grass than from their prime stock offspring



Only reason they're still here is because without them I'd have no dung to grow forage brassicas for finishing tail end (profitable) fattening lambs

And because without a few sucklers, I'd struggle to justify all the expensive bits of machinery (toys) which are the real reason to farm, obviously

+1 here.

I hope it’s not too late when DEFRA realise whole UK farming systems are disappearing!

 

[czechmate]

Well I don’t know. We only run 80 suckler cows, I don’t have any other income. I go rallying which isn’t cheap, I’ve had to forego that for half of this year to buy my ex son in law out but I’ve found that chunk of cash; is there someone out there dumping money in my bank account?

 

[DrDunc]

Well I don’t know. We only run 80 suckler cows, I don’t have any other income. I go rallying which isn’t cheap, I’ve had to forego that for half of this year to buy my ex son in law out but I’ve found that chunk of cash; is there someone out there dumping money in my bank account?

After buying out ex sil, have you been purchasing £90k forklifts and £150k tractors from the rest of your profits though?

 

[czechmate]

Just to reduce tax I have this and the additional new deutz is just having its pick up hitch fitted.
No, I don’t have a 90k fork lift, have four oldies instead

 

[czechmate]

After buying out ex sil, have you been purchasing £90k forklifts and £150k tractors from the rest of your profits though?

but the lazy git was nothing to do with our farm/business, I mearly had to buy him out of his share of their UK house

 

[czechmate]

I was brought up in steel fabrication. Plainly we weren’t big enough to make steel, so whatever we sold, we had to buy.
So, this cattle job seems miraculous to me… everything we sell just arrives from nowhere, as if from thin air

 

[john432]

There weren't many suckler cow herds in Wales before the 1970's. End of churns for milk, grants to.get out of milk, and subsidies to keep suckler cows, built up the sector... Grants to build silage pits, cubicles and slurry pits all helped.... Now it's going back to rearing dairy X calves again...