Best way to establish a herbal ley?

[Bury the Trash]

30 yr old pp 'converted' into a ' herbal ley ' for an environmental subsidy payment.

 

[ShooTa]

if done with soil innoculants - worm juice etc theres been good responses - also dont have to use fert.... which mucks with mycorrhizae

 

[Poncherello1976]

It's not what you asked, but my advice would be to leave it as pp, but change how you graze it. Much more enjoyable watching it change and far cheaper. You'll really struggle to get any benefit from herbal ley after pp. You can cut a bit of chicory in, but you won't get paid to do it.

There's always a danger (been there, done that) of being led by the promise of CS/HLS/whatever money rather than use good farming sense.

Yes I agree. I am extremely reluctant to get in to bed with the RPA, NE Etc more than needed. However times are changing and I am looking at various options and at the moment this is looking like the best. Our business is changing and so I need to get some kind of income off the land. Its going a bit off topic and i could start a new thread in Agricultural Matters about how I best get an income. After 5 years it may open up the opportunity for the fields to be arable, which I think would be handy.

30 yr old pp 'converted' into a ' herbal ley ' for an environmental subsidy payment.

You are right it does sound ridiculous, but like it or not we have a system in this country and occasionally 1 has to play the game. I am trying to work smarter not harder. Yes the payment will be nice, but I am doing it with 1 eye on the future as well. We are losing our BPS am I am trying to get prepared for it. Buildings round here make more money with other uses than cattle, and if the land brings in an income with a bit of a CS payment then all the better.

 

[cows r us]

Whole cropped spring cereals undersown with a herbal ley has worked well for us.

 

[Brisel]

I am looking at putting together a Countryside Stewardship application for 2022. It includes a lot of low input PP, but I want to put 60/70 acres in to a herbal ley, GS4. These will be in to fields that have been PP for 30+ years, and obviously we will do an EIA to convert it. What will be the best way to establish the ley? I was thinking of the easiest, spray off and DD it, but establishment maybe hit or miss. Will get some soil tests done in the spring summer to see what we have underneath. Spray, plough and drill may give better results but more intensive!

As above, watch the PP aspect. It needs to go into arable land with one of those codings. I've always thought that you can turn unimproved pasture that needs an EIA into improved grassland by using & recording sprays & fertiliser but it's not as simple as that. I'd have a chat with your advisor as the CS option will be rejected when the RPA see it's PG01.

The seed mixture for a herbal ley is reassuringly expensive so slot seeding should be avoided even into a sprayed off ley. You need it to have a clean start. The idea above of a brassica catch crop before would help clean it up if you're allowed to do so. Meadow grass will compete initially but after the right husbandry i.e. mob grazing, it will soon be smothered out. There's a long thread about mob grazing in the DD sections that is worth reading - it's a very productive pasture management tool but needs to be done correctly or you will end up defaulting back to what was there before.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

I agree with Martian, you will definitely spend less by improving your pp. I tried what you are doing at considerable expense in 2017. Apart from the odd chicory plant and a bit more cocksfoot, there's very little to show for what we did and spent. It's just recolonised with what was there before, only with less clover. Maybe if I had grown an arable or forage crop first, it might have been different.

 

[Poncherello1976]

As above, watch the PP aspect. It needs to go into arable land with one of those codings. I've always thought that you can turn unimproved pasture that needs an EIA into improved grassland by using & recording sprays & fertiliser but it's not as simple as that. I'd have a chat with your advisor as the CS option will be rejected when the RPA see it's PG01.

The seed mixture for a herbal ley is reassuringly expensive so slot seeding should be avoided even into a sprayed off ley. You need it to have a clean start. The idea above of a brassica catch crop before would help clean it up if you're allowed to do so. Meadow grass will compete initially but after the right husbandry i.e. mob grazing, it will soon be smothered out. There's a long thread about mob grazing in the DD sections that is worth reading - it's a very productive pasture management tool but needs to be done correctly or you will end up defaulting back to what was there before.

If I carry on down this route I am going to get an EIA done as soon as possible, and then hopefully get something in for this autumn. I will apply for CS starting 1/1/2022 and then either get my herbal ley in in the spring or autumn of 2022.

 

[phil the cat]

Obviously I don’t know the farm make up and land use but could you put your PP grassland into arable usage I.e plough and winter wheat and use another field which has been in arable use to GS4. We have around 95 acres in it currently and another 20 to go in this time. The land had been cultivated (sumo/disk/roll) in the autumn (2019) for ww but was too wet to drill so we established the GS4 in the may time. Went into dust really but came pretty well with clovers present. Just had sheep over it this autumn then will silage this spring.

 

[Poncherello1976]

Obviously I don’t know the farm make up and land use but could you put your PP grassland into arable usage I.e plough and winter wheat and use another field which has been in arable use to GS4. We have around 95 acres in it currently and another 20 to go in this time. The land had been cultivated (sumo/disk/roll) in the autumn (2019) for ww but was too wet to drill so we established the GS4 in the may time. Went into dust really but came pretty well with clovers present. Just had sheep over it this autumn then will silage this spring.

Yes I could do, and is one reason why I am going to get an EIA through ASAP, in the hope of widening my options. This is a plot of about 200 acres of PP away from the main farm, that I am looking at ways for easier management and putting it all in to CS is quite appealing at the moment.

 

[DanM]

EIA done asap. Spray off. Plant summer brassica mix in spring. I’ll send you over a thousand lambs to graze it off on tack. DD herbal ley in end of august when rainfall more likely in our part of world. Leave to set roots over winter. I’ll send you a few thousand sheep to graze off in spring. Sit back and enjoy the armchair!
Works well....

 

[Poncherello1976]

[QUOTE="DanM, Sit back and enjoy the armchair!
[/QUOTE]
If only, there will still be plenty to do.

 

[Bobthebuilder]

From what I’ve seen on the telly all you need is a spare room/loft space, lots of tinfoil, hydroponics and a dodgy leccy supply maybe a different kind of herbal tho

 

[ollie989898]

Herbal ley? Yeah, plough it, grow a cereal, eliminate any weeds in the cereal, then drill your herbal ley. No shortcuts or you may end up with a serious weed ingress you have zero chance of controlling.