Bps/sfi

[Hindsight]

logged in to our rural payments page this morning and a new message is there saying sfi opens on monday, no mention of wether an invitation is needed or not , so we will see on monday but im not holding my breath.

Hi 4course. Can I be nosey (inquisitive a nicer word!) Have you worked out exactly what you actions codes you would put into your SFI agreement?

 

[No wot]

I see your point but at the same time, isn't this an attempt to bring some fairness into the food chain? Processors and retailers make handsome profits while farmers rely on benefits to survive. How can that be right and why would anyone want that?

At least in part, the SFI highlights the financials of any given enterprise because there's no BPS to hide the reality.

UK households spend approx £140 billion on food every year, according to a couple of google searches and a fag packet calculation. To put that into some kind of perspective, the old CAP budget was around £3 billion. That excludes catering in schools, prisons and other institutions and possibly restaurant and takeaway, but not certain in that.

That's the real problem, how to fix it is a different question. Personally with that much money swirling around the corporate food system, I don't think paying benefits to farmers is a sustainable or just solution.

They will import what can not be produced competivly in this country, it matters not one jot to the food processor's or supermarkets wether its imported or domestically produced its all about margins and bigger the better, it's business at the end of the day and compassion and fairness to UK Agriculture isn't a factor and that's where subs help

 

[livestock 1]

They will import what can not be produced competivly in this country, it matters not one jot to the food processor's or supermarkets wether its imported or domestically produced its all about margins and bigger the better, it's business at the end of the day and compassion and fairness to UK Agriculture isn't a factor and that's where subs help

It’s a problem if what comes in is processed

 

[Tarw Coch]

It’s a problem if what comes in is processed

So it’s not a problem if it’s unprocessed ?

 

[Old apprentice]

As I understand it the contract you would sign in order to claim SFI can be changed by the other party (DEFRA) whenever it suits them and as the other party to the contract you are expected to constantly trawl the internet to keep up with changes.
There is no clear indication of what the measurable outcomes of the scheme are so how do you argue your corner when the RPA inspector finds fault and they will?
I would not sign a contract with the supermarket cartel because they are bullies and I would not have the resources to challenge their interpretation of the contract. It appears that DEFRA have the same contempt for food producers as the cartel and that they have adopted the cartel approach which is to strangle you once they have you in their clutches.
I have no wish to be a serf dancing to the tune of the cartel robber barons and neither will I put up with the Stalinist approach to land management adopted by DEFRA.

And then Natural England come with there rewilding ideas and take over your land you won't be able to stop them as you have signed an open ended contract !

 

[livestock 1]

So it’s not a problem if it’s unprocessed ?

He was saying that the processors didn’t care what was produced at home as they still made their shilling either way imported or home produced
I was answering him to say what comes in processed can’t be processed again so goes around them not into them

 

[Devil's advocate]

The most recent missive from DEFRA https://defrafarming.blog.gov.uk/2023/09/13/sfi-pinned-post/
It seems to me there is an air of desperation in the way the content is phrased.
If as I suspect, there is little interest as everyone who has looked at the contract and doesn’t trust the RPA realises they are being set up, what will the army of civil servants employed to administer the scheme find to do?
There is so little reward for a lot of uncertainty that the mental health of food producers is best protected by not signing up for SFI in its current form.
If DEFRA was a commercial operation they would go bust because they would have no customers because what they provide is not worth having,

Not a business.

Huge chatrity giving money away, to wealthy people

 

[Henarar]

I see your point but at the same time, isn't this an attempt to bring some fairness into the food chain? Processors and retailers make handsome profits while farmers rely on benefits to survive. How can that be right and why would anyone want that?

If BPS is benefits then so is SFI, far from bringing any fairness it will fund suppliers and hangers on and drive farming to be more integrated and controlled by those that buy our product with far less farmers and far less options.
BPS was money to keep the land in GAEC and farm it more or less as you like, SFI is money for control going to others

 

[Tarw Coch]

He was saying that the processors didn’t care what was produced at home as they still made their shilling either way imported or home produced
I was answering him to say what comes in processed can’t be processed again so goes around them not into them

I guess that’s the problem with reading these threads in drubs and drabs, hard to follow continuity

 

[4course]

Hi 4course. Can I be nosey (inquisitive a nicer word!) Have you worked out exactly what you actions codes you would put into your SFI agreement?

here you go hindsight et al .Im looking initially at the low hanging fruit i.e soil testing,ipm, fert planning,etc as we already do them so might as well get paid for doing it , we arnt going to sow any field corners or strips or so called marginal acres other than the existing buffers as over the last40 yrs ive spent time and effort making such like into good profitable arable land as at the time its what the govt wanted !! adas maff etc plus im a tenant so every acre had and still does have to be profitable nor do any of my landlords( Ive asked their opinion ) want me to run the risk of reducing the value or potential of their investment.
We will do the no insecticide on non brassica crops and as we run a few lambs aiming for sam 2 cover crop as that looks like it will fit our system with little change.
Was/am looking at legumes on improved grass and may still do that on some probably what we use ourselves . The payment hardly covers the cost of seed and what will be restrictions on cutting and grazing plus we sell a fair bit of hay/haylage and not many of our customers would want a lot of clover in the bales as some would think it was weeds others would say it was too rich for dobbin. The winter bird food on improved grass PP looks like a goer and pays well as if we miss third cut save a bit on a fert application and reduce the workload in late august/sept and buy in the few extra belly fill bales it would have provided at less cost than the payment plus then gnaw it of at the end of defra s winter i.e 1st march then go for 2 bigger cuts jobs a gud un
The hedge cutting regime puts me off as its easier and quicker (less cost as contractor cuts our hedges ) to just cut the lot or miss any not specified wet headlands if crop is sown and as we have a minimum of kms its hard to justify the fecking about though I would consider planting a few hedgerow trees as personally I like them in there place and would be a legacy to leave for others to enjoy in the fullness of time , both mrs 4 couse and I are well pleased with those weve planted over the years either as shelter or aesthetics .
By adopting the above I can more or less get the total receipts from sfi to roughly half the old full bps without compromising current cropping and stocking but any further actions would increase costs and lower total income so wont be happening unless rates or aims etc change a lot in our favour. Ican get the grass to pay better than the arable but others tell me they are the other way round ?

 

[Hindsight]

here you go hindsight et al .Im looking initially at the low hanging fruit i.e soil testing,ipm, fert planning,etc as we already do them so might as well get paid for doing it , we arnt going to sow any field corners or strips or so called marginal acres other than the existing buffers as over the last40 yrs ive spent time and effort making such like into good profitable arable land as at the time its what the govt wanted !! adas maff etc plus im a tenant so every acre had and still does have to be profitable nor do any of my landlords( Ive asked their opinion ) want me to run the risk of reducing the value or potential of their investment.
We will do the no insecticide on non brassica crops and as we run a few lambs aiming for sam 2 cover crop as that looks like it will fit our system with little change.
Was/am looking at legumes on improved grass and may still do that on some probably what we use ourselves . The payment hardly covers the cost of seed and what will be restrictions on cutting and grazing plus we sell a fair bit of hay/haylage and not many of our customers would want a lot of clover in the bales as some would think it was weeds others would say it was too rich for dobbin. The winter bird food on improved grass PP looks like a goer and pays well as if we miss third cut save a bit on a fert application and reduce the workload in late august/sept and buy in the few extra belly fill bales it would have provided at less cost than the payment plus then gnaw it of at the end of defra s winter i.e 1st march then go for 2 bigger cuts jobs a gud un
The hedge cutting regime puts me off as its easier and quicker (less cost as contractor cuts our hedges ) to just cut the lot or miss any not specified wet headlands if crop is sown and as we have a minimum of kms its hard to justify the fecking about though I would consider planting a few hedgerow trees as personally I like them in there place and would be a legacy to leave for others to enjoy in the fullness of time , both mrs 4 couse and I are well pleased with those weve planted over the years either as shelter or aesthetics .
By adopting the above I can more or less get the total receipts from sfi to roughly half the old full bps without compromising current cropping and stocking but any further actions would increase costs and lower total income so wont be happening unless rates or aims etc change a lot in our favour. Ican get the grass to pay better than the arable but others tell me they are the other way round ?

By adopting the above I can more or less get the total receipts from sfi to roughly half the old full bps without compromising current cropping and stocking but any further actions would increase costs and lower total income so wont be happening unless rates or aims etc change a lot in our favour. Ican get the grass to pay better than the arable but others tell me they are the other way round ?


Don't forget there will be more 'standards' along in 2024 once more BPS is recovered. So may be able to get more payments. Then again maybe not. And that is the frustrating and really irritating / annoying thing is this phased roll out of standards by Defra Janet Hughes 'team' as she refers to them. How can one plan sensibly a three year SFI stewardship agreement (as SFI is just stewardship rebadged) when we do not know exactly the options and pricing of those options.

 

[Aspiring Peasants]

By adopting the above I can more or less get the total receipts from sfi to roughly half the old full bps without compromising current cropping and stocking but any further actions would increase costs and lower total income so wont be happening unless rates or aims etc change a lot in our favour. Ican get the grass to pay better than the arable but others tell me they are the other way round ?


Don't forget there will be more 'standards' along in 2024 once more BPS is recovered. So may be able to get more payments. Then again maybe not. And that is the frustrating and really irritating / annoying thing is this phased roll out of standards by Defra Janet Hughes 'team' as she refers to them. How can one plan sensibly a three year SFI stewardship agreement (as SFI is just stewardship rebadged) when we do not know exactly the options and pricing of those options.

Absolutely, the whole thing is a shambles and should be put back at least another year and BPS reinstated. Talking to a friend about it last night and I asked if be was considering a herbal ley. As he said it’s too late now, he’s sown 24 acres of grass seed for a 3 year ley because it couldn’t wait any longer

 

[Hindsight]

Absolutely, the whole thing is a shambles and should be put back at least another year and BPS reinstated. Talking to a friend about it last night and I asked if be was considering a herbal ley. As he said it’s too late now, he’s sown 24 acres of grass seed for a 3 year ley because it couldn’t wait any longer

I had same conversation with a Dairy farm (120 cows 120 hectares total area) where I help with the BPS and known the family since 2002. Near Sheffield. A few weeks go I spent some time with them trying to explain the changes and going through options that might fit their farm (bear in mind I am comfortable with Blackgrass and Cauliflowers and no idea when it has four hooves and needs a fence!) But for them I could see Herbal Leys as a useful idea as they rotate two/three year Ryegrass leys with their winter wheat/barley. The grass around the yard is Permanent Pasture. I would say as an arable man it is a typical family dairy farm ??.