BPS15 NI

[alex04w]

Why the delayed payments? im expecting my 2016 payments next week. As are most young farmers i think.

The Department made a complete cock up of our 2015 claim. I don't want to go into too much detail as they have not finally sorted it out. Until it was sorted out, they should not have paid us our 2016 advance as we are not entitled to it - unless we win out appeal at the refusal of our 2015 payment! They have just dug themselves in even deeper by paying us this advance.

Don't worry, I will publish the full details here (unless we are forced to go the whole way to the Ombudsman, but even that will only delay the publication!).

 

[Sweepa]

The Department made a complete cock up of our 2015 claim. I don't want to go into too much detail as they have not finally sorted it out. Until it was sorted out, they should not have paid us our 2016 advance as we are not entitled to it - unless we win out appeal at the refusal of our 2015 payment! They have just dug themselves in even deeper by paying us this advance.

Don't worry, I will publish the full details here (unless we are forced to go the whole way to the Ombudsman, but even that will only delay the publication!).

They really are a useless bunch, i submitted a fully correct application last year and they still managed to mess it up. Thankfully no payments were delayed, although i have heard of farmers getting delays on this years payments (most put back to spring). Im not sure if its connected to the recent surge in inspections, people are losing money left right and centre for things like hedges over the 5m, rushes, fences etc. They are looking for a reason not to give you the money!

 

[alex04w]

Today, at long last, the Department has decided that we are 'active farmers' and they are going to pay us our 2015 BPS.

We have been having a run of correspondence with them and they just keep digging themselves in deeper. We are now free to take our case to the Ombudsman.

 

[ballymacombsgrimme]

hi Guys,

Any thoughts on this one

I applied for regional reserve and young farmer payment 2015
Dard reject application on date of head of holding based on when i created my business id.
i appeal and provide same evidence as i provided with original application explaining that i had a hobby pre 2011.
After MLA put the pressure on, the scheme manager contacted me on the phone to explain that he was examining my case.
Soon after this i got a letter to say that after examination you are now eligible and have established entitlement.
I got the money.
Then in September 16 received a letter requesting accounts in for year 2011/2012.
I made a submission within the timeline. I kept phoning every 2 weeks since November 16 and "no sorry were very busy, we will be in touch".
I went to a different department within daera in January 2017 and they have let slip that my info was looked at 16/11/16 and you are being rejected.
The issue was the accountant and i have been told in writing that i have until 14/3/17 to sort it out.
I told them in writing that it would be resolved before 14/3/17.
Next day i get phone call from Daera informing that due to new information you are going to be rejected and don't bother with the account stuff. The new information they are claiming is stock levels they have found on their aphis system.
I asked why this hasn't been identified as an issue before and the guy said "it looks like no one looked at your appeal and it just slipped through". However I have a letter to say that the scheme manager is looking at it in April 2016.
Final letter came today to say that they will be in touch to reclaim 2015 money.
We have identified you had 30 sheep in 2007, 25 sheep 2008 and 46 in 2009 is what they are now saying.

What is the ombudsman for alex?
anyone else spending more time doing paper work and compliance than farming?

 

[alex04w]

hi Guys,

Any thoughts on this one

I applied for regional reserve and young farmer payment 2015
Dard reject application on date of head of holding based on when i created my business id.
i appeal and provide same evidence as i provided with original application explaining that i had a hobby pre 2011.
After MLA put the pressure on, the scheme manager contacted me on the phone to explain that he was examining my case.
Soon after this i got a letter to say that after examination you are now eligible and have established entitlement.
I got the money.
Then in September 16 received a letter requesting accounts in for year 2011/2012.
I made a submission within the timeline. I kept phoning every 2 weeks since November 16 and "no sorry were very busy, we will be in touch".
I went to a different department within daera in January 2017 and they have let slip that my info was looked at 16/11/16 and you are being rejected.
The issue was the accountant and i have been told in writing that i have until 14/3/17 to sort it out.
I told them in writing that it would be resolved before 14/3/17.
Next day i get phone call from Daera informing that due to new information you are going to be rejected and don't bother with the account stuff. The new information they are claiming is stock levels they have found on their aphis system.
I asked why this hasn't been identified as an issue before and the guy said "it looks like no one looked at your appeal and it just slipped through". However I have a letter to say that the scheme manager is looking at it in April 2016.
Final letter came today to say that they will be in touch to reclaim 2015 money.
We have identified you had 30 sheep in 2007, 25 sheep 2008 and 46 in 2009 is what they are now saying.

What is the ombudsman for alex?
anyone else spending more time doing paper work and compliance than farming?

That sounds like typical DAERA incompetence. It mirrors my case where the Department issued incorrect letters saying I had been awarded no entitlements. Then after a Freedom of Information request that showed they did not copy all the material I supplied them to prove active farmer status in July 2015, and a few letters of complaint they decided I was entitled to about 75% of the entitlements I had applied for. However, because I had made an over-declaration they were applying penalties of 100% to my claim. So no money.

I have appealed and succeeded and have been awarded all the entitlements I had applied for and just in the past week I have received the money.

In some senses there are two issues that run side by side. Firstly there is the underlying determination of the application for BPS entitlements. Secondly there is the Departments handling of administration.

Taking the first point. If you want to challenge the Departments determination on whether or not you have a right to BPS entitlements, you must go through the Department's own appeal process. The first stage is called a Review of Decision. Here the Department gives all the material to another official within the Department and they make the decision again. Our solicitor originally told us - you have less than a zero chance to get a different decision from this Review. That said, that is where we succeeded, maybe because the Department failed to copy all our evidence and was looking at new material the second time.

The second stage appeal is a 'hearing' before an independent panel. This hearing can either be an oral based face to face hearing or it can be dealt with by way of exchange of correspondence. However, here is the sticking point - the Department only considers the result of this independent panels assessment as 'advisory'. It can still reject it and refuse the appeal. The Department was criticised for this in the recent Court judgment in the case of Ian Marshall - see my separate thread on penalties.

After the two stage appeal within the Department, you then have a choice between two final options. The first is to take the Department to Court for a Judicial Review. This can strike down the Departments decision and make them make it again, this time you can expect it to be in your favour. The draw back is that a JR will cost from £20,000 upwards and much much more if you lose. The second post appeal option is to go to the Ombudsman. Here the Ombudsman can criticise the Department and order them to compensate you for a bad decision. However the Ombudsman cannot make the Department give you entitlements.

As mentioned earlier, there are two issues running side by side - firstly there is the underlying determination of the application for BPS entitlements and secondly there is the Departments handling of administration.

Turning to the Departments handling of administration, the remedy for this is a referral to the Ombudsman. Confusing I know as I talked about the Ombudsman above as one of the two final solutions to an appeal. However their full title may help explain their role - The Northern Ireland Public Services Ombudsman.

This person is charged with ensuring that the public sector in Northern Ireland functions correctly and processes it paperwork, policies and procedures correctly.

In your case, it seems as if the Ombudsman would be interested in your case. The Department seems to be admitting that its policies and procedures have failed and as a result they misled you and paid you money they now say you are not entitled to.

However, there are certain things you must do before you can go to the Ombudsman. Firstly you must exhaust the Departments own complaints procedure. This means writing to the Department on three successive occasions with your complaint. A copy of their complaints procedure is on their web site.

Firstly you write to the person you were dealing with i.e. the Active Farmer Assessment Team / Area Based Schemes at Orchard House, Londonderry. Head your letter as an official complaint. When they answer, they should tell you who to write to if you are not satisfied. However, the Department will break their own Complaints Procedure and will not tell you this!!

So write to Brian Doherty, Head of EU Area Based Schemes Division, Room 542, Dundonald House, upper Newtownards Road, Belfast, BT4 3SB. Head the letter as a Stage Two Complaint.

When he replies he should tell you what to do and who to write to if you are still unsatisfied. Going on my experience, he will do no such thing. So for the final letter write to the Permanent Secretary, Dundonald House. This is the most senior Civil Servant in the Department. He should appoint an independent panel to advise him on the merits of the case. Again, by my experience he will not do this as he does not want independent scrutiny of his Department.

So after the third letter, write to the Ombudsman and make your complaint. Add to it that you wish to also complain that the Department is not following their own complaints procedure. The Ombudsman may enjoy dealing with two such complaints!

You might get somewhere faster if you engage the services of an MLA or an MP. The Department does not like independent scrutiny!! Leaving everyones political dislikes aside, the order in which I would say the political parties will assist you are SF, DUP, SDLP, & UUP, in that order. You will like or hate one or other or both of the first two listed, but they have their position in the polls due to how much work they will do for people on the ground.

I am sorry, but you will have a bit more, sorry mountain more, paperwork to do before you get anywhere with the Department. All the best. It took me 11 months of correspondence and many letters, but I got there in the end.

 

[ballymacombsgrimme]

thanks Alex.
I think they might be hoping we give up and they get away with hiding behind an email address or phone. I have noticed that when you send in an email, they usually phone me from a withheld number, offering only their first name. i have found their tone always changes when you ask for a full name, address and department and their direct contact details.

 

[ballymacombsgrimme]

Today, at long last, the Department has decided that we are 'active farmers' and they are going to pay us our 2015 BPS.

We have been having a run of correspondence with them and they just keep digging themselves in deeper. We are now free to take our case to the Ombudsman.

I have been advised that 46 sheep constitutes agricultural activity.