Brexit plan thoughts?

ski

Member
Time you boned up on your history. In WW2, Stalin and Hitler signed a pact to work together. They subsequently fell out. It was only later in the war that Hitler decided he had the might to take on Russia as well. And we all know what happened then!

Oldmac / arbel I agree with much of what you write but on this you are wrong. The pact was a marriage of convience that suited both well at the time. Part of the pact at the time was that Stalin got his fair share of Poland, agreed before signing. They still hated each other and knew it. Hitler was trying to show the world he did not want war by this pact although the history shows at the time he was allowed to annexe the Sudetenlands he was wanting war with the Russians but his generals insisted they still did not have the military power to defeat Russia so the pact also bought time and hopefully would deceive Stalin. They did not later fall out as they had never fallen in!

I do not think the Germans will seek any military build up, rather I believe they will be willing to do anything to save the European dream, even sacrifice a good chunk of their industrial base. History of 60 years ago is still to raw in Germany to allow militarism yet.

I have said before what we are seeing is the end of the WWII settlement as envisaged by France, Germany and Britain in post war Europe. That it survived so long is testament to their foresight. History has settled periods and unsettled periods and we are no different in that regard to our forefathers, we are not more educated, we are not more aggressive or pacifist we are just in a different situation though the course of human nature remains the same. We have just had a long settled period. True we have more gadgets and are more inter connected than ever before but how and if this will influence our actions when and if push comes to shove I doubt. The threads we see swirling about in the USA and Western Europe are the same as have been seen before though they never weave the same cloth twice.

What I find troubling is that there seems to be no outriders of some new vision to replace the rapidly declining current one. It looks like there's going to be a vacuum to fill and chaos will step in if nobody else does. There is an old soldiers saying, "the first thing to go in the battle is the first plan", so I don't think the first signs of a Brexit plan will necessarily give us much of a clue as to the look of the final settlement.

Change is only unsettling when you are not in charge of it, this is illustrated by the findings that single seat fighter pilots in WWII suffered less anxiety than bomber pilots, yet statistically they were more likely to die but they felt in control of their environment whereas bomber pilots felt they very little control of theirs. This insight should help us to think not so much about what the Brexit might do to our lives or businesses but more what can I do to improve my business right now. That's a Brexit plan that you can start on now.
 

Danllan

Member
Location
Sir Gar / Carms
Unpredictable.... are we talking about the same Angela??

The one and only Fraurer herself, yes. Did you guess she was going to unilaterally allow 1 million+ in?

Germans think they are the best ... which is not totally true but they are good at everything they do.

No, their innovative attempts are nowhere near as cost effective as those in many other countries; very good at refining existing things though - but that is speaking in industrial terms. Do you think their diplomacy is good? How about their jurisprudence? What about the German 'aid' programs in Africa, I can't write with knowledge of elsewhere, and their 'due-diligence', or lack there of, in re' the subsidising of industry and foreign dictators? What about their financing Jewish settlements on Palestinian land? No, you are quite correct that they think they are best - in fact no, they think that others are worse than them; scratch that, they still think that others are worse than them.

@ski the biggest factor regarding where we are now is that there are nuclear weapons.
 

arbel

Member
Location
Pembrokeshire
Hey, impressed with the Mandarin.

China, India & the Middle East has numbers ... the USA might be ahead but even dealing with the Middle East has proven to be debilatating.

I don't expect the USA to want to go to war with China, but China is expansionist.

I've got the flu so in between feeling wretched I've been watching the Trump briefings. We'll see but I'm impressed with the action he has created in such a short time.

Congrats on the Manderin again, well done :)

xie xie ni
 

Danllan

Member
Location
Sir Gar / Carms
Merkel unpredictable?

It's an opinion I suppose.

Have you tried listening to what she actually says rather than what the press here says she said?

There are several excellent online translation services available.
Scottish independence is also an 'opinion' by that measure. Yes, have mush of her wisdom both with my poor German and in translation.

Did you predict her million+ welcome?
 
All countries have to accept refugees from time to time even the UK.
Though it did block the kindertransport until it was almost too late.
Only 9000 odd were saved.

Would you have refused those people from Africa who have fled murderous regimes for instance?
 

Danllan

Member
Location
Sir Gar / Carms
All countries have to accept refugees from time to time even the UK.
Though it did block the kindertransport until it was almost too late.
Only 9000 odd were saved.

Would you have refused those people from Africa who have fled murderous regimes for instance?
Still waiting for you to answer my question; but you haven't and are trying your usual ploy of asking another question to dodge the issue... tut, tut, tut...
 

nivilla1982

Member
Livestock Farmer
It is perfectly possible for states that publically profess hatred for one another to cooperate very well secretly, eg Israeli aid and supplies to the Islamic Republic of Iran during the Iran-Iraq war.
Relations were undoubtedly tense between Hitler's Germany and the USSR from 1933, however international and economic reality forced the two to become reluctant friends and allies. Even as late April 1941 Stalin gave strong consideration to becoming the 4th axis power alongside Germany, Italy and Japan. German rearmament would not have taken place without raw materials obtained from the USSR.
The secret test and training areas used by Germany in the USSR in the 1920s and 1930s as a result of a secret treaty were rather useful too.
 
Still waiting for you to answer my question; but you haven't and are trying your usual ploy of asking another question to dodge the issue... tut, tut, tut...
Did I predict everything a politician has said?

A have you stopped beating your wife/dog/donkey style question?

Or are you Mystic Meg perhaps?

If so can I have the lottery numbers please?

(Now why would a lawyer ask a lawyer style non question?)

Lol.
 

Danllan

Member
Location
Sir Gar / Carms
Did I predict everything a politician has said?

A have you stopped beating your wife/dog/donkey style question?

Or are you Mystic Meg perhaps?

If so can I have the lottery numbers please?

(Now why would a lawyer ask a lawyer style non question?)

Lol.
Now, why would anyone with so much to say 'answer' a question with a question...?

Ho, hum, weather has lifted so on to the lands...
 

Two Tone

Member
Mixed Farmer
Not surprising that the Supreme Court has not upheld the Government's appeal re the High Court rulling. However good to see that it said that it still wants Parliament to carry out the Peoples wish, that we leave the EU.

It looks like there will be a majority vote to trigger Article 50 in Parliament anyway.
But it does make you wonder, if the Supreme Court had sided with the Government, wouldn't it have that set a president allowing any Government to push things through as though it was some kind of dictatorship?

We do, after all want to Leave the EU so that our Sovereign Parliament can make our own decisions for us rather than the EU. Let's make sure we go about it the right way and not let there be any chance of those who wish us to remain claiming that we didn't do things properly, therefore we haven't left.

So correctly, a bill will now be introduced, quickly by the looks of it and we will be back on course to pull the trigger at the end of March.
 

Pasty

Member
Location
Devon
Interesting, I'll take any Romantic country like France, Italy or Spain for their cuisine :)
You've obviously never met a romantic Chinaman down a dark alley.
Not surprising that the Supreme Court has not upheld the Government's appeal re the High Court rulling. However good to see that it said that it still wants Parliament to carry out the Peoples wish, that we leave the EU.

It looks like there will be a majority vote to trigger Article 50 in Parliament anyway.
But it does make you wonder, if the Supreme Court had sided with the Government, wouldn't it have that set a president allowing any Government to push things through as though it was some kind of dictatorship?

We do, after all want to Leave the EU so that our Sovereign Parliament can make our own decisions for us rather than the EU. Let's make sure we go about it the right way and not let there be any chance of those who wish us to remain claiming that we didn't do things properly, therefore we haven't left.

So correctly, a bill will now be introduced, quickly by the looks of it and we will be back on course to pull the trigger at the end of March.
That's the question about representative democracy. Like I'm an elected Parish Cllr so we, as a council decide certain things that most folk care little about and trust us to get on with. It's the big questions where everyone starts popping up and accusing everyone of corruption. Like solar parks etc.

Does everyone in our parish want a ref. about where the dog sh!t bin goes? No, they leave it to us to decide. We DICTATE and people are happy about that as they don't have to think about dog sh!t. . But when the bypass is coming through.............
 

arbel

Member
Location
Pembrokeshire
Not surprising that the Supreme Court has not upheld the Government's appeal re the High Court rulling. However good to see that it said that it still wants Parliament to carry out the Peoples wish, that we leave the EU.

It looks like there will be a majority vote to trigger Article 50 in Parliament anyway.
But it does make you wonder, if the Supreme Court had sided with the Government, wouldn't it have that set a president allowing any Government to push things through as though it was some kind of dictatorship?

We do, after all want to Leave the EU so that our Sovereign Parliament can make our own decisions for us rather than the EU. Let's make sure we go about it the right way and not let there be any chance of those who wish us to remain claiming that we didn't do things properly, therefore we haven't left.

So correctly, a bill will now be introduced, quickly by the looks of it and we will be back on course to pull the trigger at the end of March.
I see that the "Wee Krankie" has her knickers in a twist as usual. Let's hope she triggers another Scotland to leave the Union referendum. The result would almost certainly see her having to step down from her current lair. :D:D
 

turbo

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
lincs
I see that the "Wee Krankie" has her knickers in a twist as usual. Let's hope she triggers another Scotland to leave the Union referendum. The result would almost certainly see her having to step down from her current lair. :D:D
She won't do it all pee and hot air
 

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