Buy Land!!! NOW IS THE TIME?

[Farmer_Joe]

@Flatland guy

Agreed send me the location and I will pay the £2 fee to see the deed and sale Price, just seems like shite

 

[midlandslad]

@Flatland guy

Agreed send me the location and I will pay the £2 fee to see the deed and sale Price, just seems like shite

I have been in touch with @warksfarmer before about these exceptionally high land prices and on further digging it seemed that the LR was stating very different sale prices.

 

[Flatland guy]

If it is a non or even farming ltd company, you can check their financial on companies house website both prior to the year of purchase and in the current year of purchase, it should have an addition of approx. 4.3million in assets at the least. You can check on Land registry website after approx. six months of transaction being completed. The two should tally.

Also there will be 5 % Stamp duty premium on top of the purchase price over £250,000 threshold, which is about £200,000 I believe.

@Flatland guy

Agreed send me the location and I will pay the £2 fee to see the deed and sale Price, just seems like shite

At the minute I do not know the location( other than North Warks). I have been trying to find past online particulars but with no success yet, it may have been an "off the market" deal

 

[warksfarmer]

If it is a non or even farming ltd company, you can check their financial on companies house website both prior to the year of purchase and in the current year of purchase, it should have an addition of approx. 4.3million in assets at the least. You can check on Land registry website after approx. six months of transaction being completed. The two should tally.

Also there will be 5 % Stamp duty premium on top of the purchase price over £250,000 threshold, which is about £200,000 I believe.


At the minute I do not know the location( other than North Warks). I have been trying to find past online particulars but with no success yet, it may have been an "off the market" deal

50% of land sales are now done privately without land agents. More and more common now is a buyer approaching a land owner directly, price agreed and past onto solicitors.
Also where the buildings are retained and not sold the land sale is then not designated under the farm name which is widely known, so finding these deals is harder.

 

[warksfarmer]

I have been in touch with @warksfarmer before about these exceptionally high land prices and on further digging it seemed that the LR was stating very different sale prices.

Not 100% sure which deal you are referring to but when a farm is split into lots the LR deed showing the actual address and holding might look like it’s significantly less but when you subsequently find the other lots the price printed on the title deed you are looking at part of the holding. For example 100ac in 3 lots sold at £20k/ac is £2 million. Lot 1 at with the yard (ie farm address) might say for example £500k so then people autonaticallly assume the 100ac sold for £5k/ac when in reality lot 1 was 35ac but it doesn’t say lot 1 on the deed.
Also buyers go out of their way to create new names for lots they’ve bought so people struggle to find out what’s been paid.

 

[midlandslad]

Not 100% sure which deal you are referring to but when a farm is split into lots the LR deed showing the actual address and holding might look like it’s significantly less but when you subsequently find the other lots the price printed on the title deed you are looking at part of the holding. For example 100ac in 3 lots sold at £20k/ac is £2 million. Lot 1 at with the yard (ie farm address) might say for example £500k so then people autonaticallly assume the 100ac sold for £5k/ac when in reality lot 1 was 35ac but it doesn’t say lot 1 on the deed.
Also buyers go out of their way to create new names for lots they’ve bought so people struggle to find out what’s been paid.

Try the following, it is very good and you can find anything you want

HM Land Registry MapSearch

Business e-services customers can use MapSearch to find out if a property is registered, view its location and obtain its title number and details of tenure.

www.gov.uk

 

[Tarw Coch]

50% of land sales are now done privately without land agents. More and more common now is a buyer approaching a land owner directly, price agreed and past onto solicitors.
Also where the buildings are retained and not sold the land sale is then not designated under the farm name which is widely known, so finding these deals is harder.

Private sales and private treaty seem to dominate sales nowadays, very little seems to go to auction anymore.
Over recent years we have bought 3 lots of property, a field we were renting as grass keep bought privately between us and the owner, 3 fields adjoining our farm for sale with an agent private treaty and a bungalow which was on the edge of our farm but now surrounded by our land after purchasing those 3 fields, the bungalow bought at public auction.

The only one of those 3 purchases that we payed considerably more than we expected at almost double the guide price was the one sold at auction, I stood with my back to the wall in the auction room in a place where I could see across the whole room and didn’t start bidding until I thought bids were coming to an end and could see that I was bidding against someone the whole time.

There have also been a couple of other blocks of land I’ve put offers in for, sold private treaty that I didn’t get. The last one rather strange, the only one I was requested to submit a written offer for. After a couple of weeks the agent rang me, thanked me for my offer and informed me they were asking for best and final offers by week on Wednesday.
Keen to buy I tried to get a bit more information out of them, was I close or was I a long way out.
They wouldn’t comment so submitted a higher offer with the uncertainty that I might already have the highest offer…….I didn’t get that one.

Another I was having a bidding session through the selling agent for which I strongly suspected the other party bidding was the seller/agent, I dropped out of that one and left in on their hand’s although they did find a buyer for that about 12 months later.

Had any of those lots of land, the ones I bought or missed, that were sold privately been put on public auction I’d almost certainly have bid quite a bit more …………..even though
buying them all wouldn’t have been an option

Quite simply, I hate the shady world of private sales where you don’t know if you’re bidding against another buyer or the agent, I much prefer the transparency of a public auction and as I have already said,, would bid higher at an auction because of it.

 

[AJ123]

Private sales and private treaty seem to dominate sales nowadays, very little seems to go to auction anymore.
Over recent years we have bought 3 lots of property, a field we were renting as grass keep bought privately between us and the owner, 3 fields adjoining our farm for sale with an agent private treaty and a bungalow which was on the edge of our farm but now surrounded by our land after purchasing those 3 fields, the bungalow bought at public auction.

The only one of those 3 purchases that we payed considerably more than we expected at almost double the guide price was the one sold at auction, I stood with my back to the wall in the auction room in a place where I could see across the whole room and didn’t start bidding until I thought bids were coming to an end and could see that I was bidding against someone the whole time.

There have also been a couple of other blocks of land I’ve put offers in for, sold private treaty that I didn’t get. The last one rather strange, the only one I was requested to submit a written offer for. After a couple of weeks the agent rang me, thanked me for my offer and informed me they were asking for best and final offers by week on Wednesday.
Keen to buy I tried to get a bit more information out of them, was I close or was I a long way out.
They wouldn’t comment so submitted a higher offer with the uncertainty that I might already have the highest offer…….I didn’t get that one.

Another I was having a bidding session through the selling agent for which I strongly suspected the other party bidding was the seller/agent, I dropped out of that one and left in on their hand’s although they did find a buyer for that about 12 months later.

Had any of those lots of land, the ones I bought or missed, that were sold privately been put on public auction I’d almost certainly have bid quite a bit more …………..even though
buying them all wouldn’t have been an option

Quite simply, I hate the shady world of private sales where you don’t know if you’re bidding against another buyer or the agent, I much prefer the transparency of a public auction and as I have already said,, would bid higher at an auction because of it.

What makes you think that in a public auction you’re not bidding against the wall behind you?

 

[jackp]

What makes you think that in a public auction you’re not bidding against the wall behind you?

If you can see the other bidder there’s a fair chance it isn’t a wall

 

[Flatland guy]

50% of land sales are now done privately without land agents. More and more common now is a buyer approaching a land owner directly, price agreed and past onto solicitors.
Also where the buildings are retained and not sold the land sale is then not designated under the farm name which is widely known, so finding these deals is harder.

Backing up what what Midlands lad said, on the Land registry website you can zoom onto any individual field anywhere in UK, from there you can then see when it was last sold/changed hands if since 1992 i believe. Some of them state the boundary. You then work out the whether it is one field, two fields changed hands etc.
From memory LR charge £3 for overview of title deeds , name, date changed hands purchase/ transfer price.
For another £3 you can see the map of the Land registry title number, i.e the boundary

At that stage you know what somebody has paid, when etc however you do not know the actual cost per acre/ hectare.

To find out that go to any online Ordnance survey mapping company provide them with a map/with boundary/field they will then work out the area inside the boundary. You then divide the purchase price by the area to have a definitive price per acre. Yes they may be slight differences between area from Os to buyer maps but you get very accurate figure.

So for about £100 you have the answer. If you do not believe me, try a field on your own farm first! You will be surprised how quick you can find out accurate data.

 

[Bossfarmer]

Lot of the stuff on the land registry map in lagging years behind, farms i know of sold 5 years ago arent up yet

 

[Rich_ard]

Backing up what what Midlands lad said, on the Land registry website you can zoom onto any individual field anywhere in UK, from there you can then see when it was last sold/changed hands if since 1992 i believe. Some of them state the boundary. You then work out the whether it is one field, two fields changed hands etc.
From memory LR charge £3 for overview of title deeds , name, date changed hands purchase/ transfer price.
For another £3 you can see the map of the Land registry title number, i.e the boundary

At that stage you know what somebody has paid, when etc however you do not know the actual cost per acre/ hectare.

To find out that go to any online Ordnance survey mapping company provide them with a map/with boundary/field they will then work out the area inside the boundary. You then divide the purchase price by the area to have a definitive price per acre. Yes they may be slight differences between area from Os to buyer maps but you get very accurate figure.

So for about £100 you have the answer. If you do not believe me, try a field on your own farm first! You will be surprised how quick you can find out accurate data.

Scotland it's free. Sometimes you can't see the price though. Not sure why, I think it could be if it changed hand but never change for money. Family etc but went through a solicitor. Usually if it was sold the prices are showing. You would have to work out the acres if you wanted to know the size.

 

[Flatland guy]

Scotland it's free. Sometimes you can't see the price though. Not sure why, I think it could be if it changed hand but never change for money. Family etc but went through a solicitor. Usually if it was sold the prices are showing. You would have to work out the acres if you wanted to know the size.

Apologies Scotland is possibly different from England And Wales. I believe if register on first registration on the Land registry they state not exceeding the value of £........, that may be the case if you inherit etc through a will/gifting, where no money changes hands too. or Scotland possibly ignores the value figure on those occasions.

Lot of the stuff on the land registry map in lagging years behind, farms i know of sold 5 years ago arent up yet

Currently first registration is taking up a year I believe, but anything actually sold should be up within six months of transaction taking place.

Have you actually consider that those farms supposedly sold have never been sold? Perhaps just different farmers! The Crown Estate erected signs in one locality of farms they owned, it was surprising how many had declared they owned their farms and then could not take them down but conveniently try to obscure them.

 

[Bossfarmer]

Apologies Scotland is possibly different from England And Wales. I believe if register on first registration on the Land registry they state not exceeding the value of £........, that may be the case if you inherit etc through a will/gifting, where no money changes hands too. or Scotland possibly ignores the value figure on those occasions.


Currently first registration is taking up a year I believe, but anything actually sold should be up within six months of transaction taking place.

Have you actually consider that those farms supposedly sold have never been sold? Perhaps just different farmers! The Crown Estate erected signs in one locality of farms they owned, it was surprising how many had declared they owned their farms and then could not take them down but conveniently try to obscure them.

No definately bought as i know the sellets and buyers in many cases

 

[Flatland guy]

If you genuinely believe it has been sold but the details not up within five years then there is some serious fraud taking place somewhere, either solicitors or Land registry. Occasionally, very occasionally I hear mutterings that sometimes nobody can not find the deeds so the sale cannot take place, in that scenario it is not sold until the seller can find the deeds/provide enough evidence to substaniate their claim( I believe this can take up to ten years), however until that process occurs it does not get sold!!! and the buyer may pull out after a while.

 

[Tarw Coch]

What makes you think that in a public auction you’re not bidding against the wall behind you?

There are no guarantees but in an auction you can watch the auctioneer and the crowd and make a judgment.
Private you really are blind to what’s going on.
Plus in an auction it’s very visible to all there if the auctioneer is running something and gets stuck with it on their hands so they may be less inclined to try it on too much

 

[Little squeak]

"but anything actually sold should be up within six months of transaction taking place." well that is how it should work, in Scotland I have looked at 3 farms the longest time ago was 4 years non of them have prices up yet in the land regestry and I know all 3 have been sold

 

[warksfarmer]

Backing up what what Midlands lad said, on the Land registry website you can zoom onto any individual field anywhere in UK, from there you can then see when it was last sold/changed hands if since 1992 i believe. Some of them state the boundary. You then work out the whether it is one field, two fields changed hands etc.
From memory LR charge £3 for overview of title deeds , name, date changed hands purchase/ transfer price.
For another £3 you can see the map of the Land registry title number, i.e the boundary

At that stage you know what somebody has paid, when etc however you do not know the actual cost per acre/ hectare.

To find out that go to any online Ordnance survey mapping company provide them with a map/with boundary/field they will then work out the area inside the boundary. You then divide the purchase price by the area to have a definitive price per acre. Yes they may be slight differences between area from Os to buyer maps but you get very accurate figure.

So for about £100 you have the answer. If you do not believe me, try a field on your own farm first! You will be surprised how quick you can find out accurate data.

That is definitely not correct.

 

[Cowcorn]

There are no guarantees but in an auction you can watch the auctioneer and the crowd and make a judgment.
Private you really are blind to what’s going on.
Plus in an auction it’s very visible to all there if the auctioneer is running something and gets stuck with it on their hands so they may be less inclined to try it on too much

Agreed the " puffer " can only puff so much ....

 

[midlandslad]

That is definitely not correct.

Sorry, but it is correct. Send me a link to the particulars of the golden land and I will see what the LR tells us.