Buying groups

[cosmagedon]

Are buying groups worth looking into? I'm thinking mainly for fertilizer and some sprays at first and see how we get on.

Is there a noticeable saving over buying from independent dealers or Wynnstay for instance? That's how its historically been done at home I'm just thinking about other options at the moment.

 

[Farmer_Joe]

depends on the size of you operation in my experience, and if you use one you really want to use them for everything to get your moneys worth.

The one near me by the time you nock off the annual fee and the percentage they took off was not worth it.

The big issue was i did not want to change feed supplier and the one i used did not have a buyers group but secondly to that if you check suppliers regularly and shop around for fuel and fert etc you can prob match the buyers group price.

If you dont have time then buyers group can be very useful and they do all this for you.

 

[GTB]

With ferts an artic load delivered direct is the best price possible usually. If you're buying it like this then there's no advantage from going through a group. If you're buying smaller quantities then you may benefit a bit.

There was a group that started around here many years ago but it never got off the ground. The big guys could buy cheaper direct and the suppliers wouldn't quote unless they were included. In a way the big orders were needed to subside the small orders.

 

[cosmagedon]

Were not talking massive quantity's, sounds like its not the best idea then.

I didn't realise they took an annual fee and a percentage off, if that's the case I would be better spending the time on the phone myself.

 

[Kevtherev]

Buying groups were popular in this area at one time but one man was making a killing!
Best shop around for the best deals yourself

 

[Pan mixer]

I am in a buying group, they usually beat any price that I can get on my own. I use them for fuel, fertilizer and some chemicals, occasional seed and all my dealings with the local ag-engineers go through them as I get extra discount.

Costs me £20 per month

 

[Yorkshire lad]

We are members of Woldmarsh and our biggest saving has been in electricity . Since we have bought electric through Woldmarsh we have had no problems with bills and getting meters read , and on to an actual bill . I suppose with the number of members buying electric ,they have some clout with power companies They are usually cheaper than I can buy direct for other goods and services but you do pay a membership fee

 

[neilo]

I was looking at joining SASTAK machinery ring a couple of years ago. I challenged the lass there to better the fert quotes (only a load and a half) I'd got from ringing round. I said that, if she beat my quotes by more than the membership fee, I would join.
The saving she made was around double the annual membership fee, and I thought I'd found some good prices already. So I honoured my word and joined up. Every year since, the fert has been cheaper than I could source elsewhere, but admittedly not by as much.
They also managed to source wood pellets for my biomass boiler at £30/t less than I had been paying, through a local supplier who I had no idea had started selling pellets.
Only once has diesel through the group been cheaper than my normal supplier though, who is often a fair bit lower.

For feed supplies, I would suggest spec and a fixed formulation is far more important than going for the lowest price, but others obviously have different views or the National feed firms and their 'least cost rationing' would have folded years ago.

 

[brynseiri]

Are buying groups worth looking into? I'm thinking mainly for fertilizer and some sprays at first and see how we get on.

Is there a noticeable saving over buying from independent dealers or Wynnstay for instance? That's how its historically been done at home I'm just thinking about other options at the moment.

.I get @ForageFred out for what little I do, and being the agronomist as well as the salesman, he specs specific products for a specific job. So bulk buy would be virtually impossible for spray chemicals. I've known Rhys all my life, so he's first for anything I do as a matter of courtesy, but my mate has all of his potato chemicals from him and it's spot on price and quality. The machinery ring used to do all this bulk buy sh!t up here ten years ago, but all they did for your membership fee was ring round 2 or 3 suppliers for the cheapest on the day, that's why it died a death, because you could do what they did yourself for next to Fock all.

 

[GTB]

As @neilo says be very careful with feed prices everyone. It's very easy to formulate a ration that's £20 / ton cheaper by altering ingredients. It would still be 18% or whatever protein you specked up just far lower quality.

As for fuel I'm sure we could buy cheaper by shopping around but the service from our regular supplier is second to none and we never have any dirt or water in the fuel so we stick with the same firm at all times.

 

[Will Blackburn]

Fram Farmers operate in the NW and do a good job for me. I can get you the contact number of the guy that looks after members locally to see if its for you?

 

[Brisel]

Anglia Farmers work nationally - for arable, most of the suppliers are national ones anyway, as are the big feed suppliers. AF did the buying for First Milk farmers I think?

AF are not the cheapest as they are a very big group (>£300m/year turnover) with a lot of staff but I was £30k/year better off straight away when I joined them a few years ago. The biggest savings were on fertiliser & seed as I was dealing with middlemen before. Agchem savings have been good too but not to the same extent as before I was putting each order out to tender via email with 6 suppliers (5 of them national players). What has been a bonus for me has been the other little savings & discounts that I wasn't expecting, like 7.5% off the bills from a well known local general farm supplier with whom I spend roughly £10k/year - that extra discount over what I was getting before pays for the annual membership fees alone. Rebates on sprays & fertiliser covers most of the levies (a % of turnover).

As above, if you spend the time ringing around for everything then you could probably get prices as good without paying a group to get them but that takes time - what do you value your own time at? I have spent the time saved by sending the group one email by adding value to my business & developing it elsewhere - hopefully that equates to many many times the fees & levies I pay out.

 

[Brisel]

We are members of Woldmarsh and our biggest saving has been in electricity . Since we have bought electric through Woldmarsh we have had no problems with bills and getting meters read , and on to an actual bill . I suppose with the number of members buying electric ,they have some clout with power companies They are usually cheaper than I can buy direct for other goods and services but you do pay a membership fee

I used to be a member of Woldmarsh at a previous farm. They were very good. No excess overheads & very member friendly. They were good for sorting utilities out. They have a TFF membership so I dare say they are watching this thread...

AF weren't competitive for electricity but the firm I work for now has 80+ meters so we went direct to a broker for our own electricty contracts. I'm currently fighting with N Power over excessive bills on my main farm 1/2 hourly smart meter (wrong multiplier?) so we'll see how good the broker really is soon enough! We do our own mobile contracts direct with Vodafone too but we have 75 handsets so have access to the same account dept as the buying groups doing hundreds.

 

[Will Blackburn]

Google says Anglia t/o of £230m, and Fram t/o at £169m. Fram have a membership fee with a levy only on feed and certain livestock inputs, whereas Anglia the fee is mostly levy based? Fram is very good on electric with everyone fixed up with remotely read meters. I think Npower must have a company policy of bodging the invoicing, so it is good to have an intermediary.

 

[Brisel]

Google says Anglia t/o of £230m, and Fram t/o at £169m. Fram have a membership fee with a levy only on feed and certain livestock inputs, whereas Anglia the fee is mostly levy based? Fram is very good on electric with everyone fixed up with remotely read meters. I think Npower must have a company policy of bodging the invoicing, so it is good to have an intermediary.

I haven't looked up what AF's turnover was so I'm sure you're right. Last year's membership fee was around £395ish then a levy on top. Levies are lower if you "commit" to buying all of that category through them. I do this for seed/fert/sprays but not fuel or utilities. They are getting better on fuel these days.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

PMR have taken over a Ring in North Wales so will cover the whole of Wales now , they are none profit making although they have their over heads to cover , very cheap on grass seed

 

[Spud]

I'm a member of www.derwentbuyersgroup.com and have been for a good while now. Agronomists (one specialist potato agronomist, the other (the same as my biggest customer)) are independent, paid per acre. The cereal/beet one emails DBG my chem requirements and cc's me in. They then source appropriately, and chem arrives. No hassle at all, and much cheaper than the previous system. The potato chems are a bit more predictable in requirements, and to a large extent, I have a fair idea what we'll use in a season. In conjunction with the agron, I commit to a certain volume of product (usually 60-70% of expected total usuage), which gives me extended payment terms in addition to the discount.
They do various other things too, like fuel cards, seed and fert, which we use in varying amounts. Recommended, they're a pleasure to work with.

 

[milkloss]

I'm surprised there hasn't been a TFF effort to form some kind of buying power. Lots of peeps on here but I should imagine it could turn into a bit of a nightmare perhaps?

 

[Pan mixer]

I'm surprised there hasn't been a TFF effort to form some kind of buying power. Lots of peeps on here but I should imagine it could turn into a bit of a nightmare perhaps?

Good point @milkloss, a nightmare indeed, the prized anonymity of posters would have to go as well as involving huge admin charges.

However, TFF does fulfill an important role here with the price-tracker stickies in various sections.

 

[Princess Pooper]

I'm surprised there hasn't been a TFF effort to form some kind of buying power. Lots of peeps on here but I should imagine it could turn into a bit of a nightmare perhaps?

This has been suggested many times but I for one (and as a member of 2 buying groups) think it would be a bad idea. Buying groups are a lot more hassle to run than people think.