BYDV tolerant varieties

[Wheat]

I keep reading about BYDV tolerant Wheat and Barley varieties, but from what I can see the majority of the recommended list do not fall into this camp. I am aware there are one or two resistant varieties in the pipeline, and even now being grown commercially, but is the any tolerance in current/more established varieties?

I grow gp3 Wheat, 6row hybrid feed barley and milling Oats. All sown between mid sept - mid oct. Would I be mad to not spray for aphids?

Any experience or advice greatly received.

Thank you

 

[shakerator]

I keep reading about BYDV tolerant Wheat and Barley varieties, but from what I can see the majority of the recommended list do not fall into this camp. I am aware there are one or two resistant varieties in the pipeline, and even now being grown commercially, but is the any tolerance in current/more established varieties?

I grow gp3 Wheat, 6row hybrid feed barley and milling Oats. All sown between mid sept - mid oct. Would I be mad to not spray for aphids?

Any experience or advice greatly received.

Thank you

rgt wolverine ?
Not sure if on next years list

have heard conflicting opinions on spraying

 

[California]

RGT Wolverine is supposed to have some BYDV resistance. Presumably one of the resistant varieties the OP mentions. Not sure if it's resistant to every strain or whether new strains could develop. We had ordered some seed but cancelled after they demanded crazy money (normal seed price + former cost of Deter + a bit on top, it was going to work out the equivalent of around £640/ton). I'm sure that some people will pay it but not for us.
I haven't personally come across any tolerant varieties but I'm just a farmer not a seed specialist of course.

 

[An Gof]

RGT Wolverine is supposed to have some BYDV resistance. Presumably one of the resistant varieties the OP mentions. Not sure if it's resistant to every strain or whether new strains could develop. We had ordered some seed but cancelled after they demanded crazy money (normal seed price + former cost of Deter + a bit on top, it was going to work out the equivalent of around £640/ton). I'm sure that some people will pay it but not for us.
I haven't personally come across any tolerant varieties but I'm just a farmer not a seed specialist of course.

Did that include the BIPO Royalty payment or was that going to be another shock on top?
Here in the SW we are high risk for BYDV but i will do all i can to avoid buying any BIPO royalty scheme varieties.

 

[eagleye]

grew Amistar w barley 6 row tolerant BYDV, did ok for us

 

[Gong Farmer]

Wolverine WW and Amistar & Rafael barleys are tolerant (i.e. resistant but not immune). No tolerance of any degree in any other vars on the list as far as I know.

 

[Wheat]

thanks for the replies. interesting comments on the price of wolverine.

pleased I'm not going mad and haven't missed a load of tolerant varieties.

 

[Barry]

Wolverine WW and Amistar & Rafael barleys are tolerant (i.e. resistant but not immune). No tolerance of any degree in any other vars on the list as far as I know.

Amistar and Rafaela are both six row barley varieties that have tolerance, neither are on the recommended list though I believe that it might be recognised as an important characteristic by the ahdb and therefore you may see varieties on the recommended list in the next year or so as there are two row varieties likely to be candidates this year.

Wolverine is the only wheat variety that I am aware of that is likely to appear over the next few years. It is available commercially this year but to my knowledge is sold out everywhere.

Whether breeders are charging for royalty within the cost of the certified seed as in the case of Amistar and Rafaela or if it is being done via a payment per hectare with BIPO, all the varieties are looking for a royalty premium over varieties that do not have BYDV tolerance/resistance.

 

[California]

Did that include the BIPO Royalty payment or was that going to be another shock on top?
Here in the SW we are high risk for BYDV but i will do all i can to avoid buying any BIPO royalty scheme varieties.

That included factoring in the BIPO royalty but like yourself we will do all to avoid buying certified seed with royalties on top. When we buy certified seed (and we usually do) we expect royalties to be included in the price. It seemed to me almost like they have done it to make the seed look cheaper than it actually works out to be.

 

[An Gof]

That included factoring in the BIPO royalty but like yourself we will do all to avoid buying certified seed with royalties on top. When we buy certified seed (and we usually do) we expect royalties to be included in the price. It seemed to me almost like they have done it to make the seed look cheaper than it actually works out to be.

But it’s not just that it’s the ongoing cost if you decide to farm save and the access to your farm and Buisness you effectively sign away in the agreement.

 

[robbie]

Are there more and more varieties going down the BIPO route???
When ordering seed how do we know which ones to avoid???

 

[California]

Are there more and more varieties going down the BIPO route???
When ordering seed how do we know which ones to avoid???

There is a list here http://www.bipo.org.uk/royalty-rates/ It looks like RAGT in particular seem to be going down this route which is a concern. Lots of pulse varieties going that way too, especially combining peas. When you are probably already paying £550-£600 a ton for the seed and in the case of marrowfats a ton will only sow around 3ha a royalty on top makes it very expensive.
Personally I'd much rather pay the royalty in the cost of the seed. When we ordered back in the spring our trader said "expect it to be a little more than an established variety in line with other new varieties" which is why we ordered and then cancelled.
My main problem with the Wolverine is that if it's only tolerant and relatively unproven so I can quite easily see our agronomist saying (probably quite rightly) "best to put some insecticide in just to be on the safe side". So you are effectively paying £250 a ton premium for the seed over a standard variety with potentially no financial benefit. Yes people paid £180 a ton or whatever for Deter but at least it was proven. I guess they have added a bit extra on top as people will often pay for the novelty of having the newest variety too.
Also Wolverine is not exceptionally high yielding, needs robust pgrs and also doesn't have owbm resistance so hardly the complete package.
It's great if breeders can come up with genetic solutions to pest and disease problems but not at any price (although if they managed to breed a flea beetle resistant oilseed rape then maybe!)

 

[An Gof]

Why price BYDV tolerance against Deter? Why not use two applications of pyrethroid as the cost base?
I am in a very high risk area for BYDV and have never used Deter when available for control. I always relied on well timed pyrethroid sprays and never had any major issues.

 

[robbie]

So you have to buy the seed then pay another £23/ha on top!!!! f**k that for a game of soldiers!!!!!
What happens when you farm save, do you just pay the £23/ha or is FSS not an option.

That's twice the bspb royalty!!!!!

 

[California]

So you have to buy the seed then pay another £23/ha on top!!!! fudge that for a game of soldiers!!!!!
What happens when you farm save, do you just pay the £23/ha or is FSS not an option.

That's twice the bspb royalty!!!!!

It's £33/ha actually (so working on 1 ton sowing at 5.5ha that's an extra £181.50/ton on the cost of the seed)
I'm not 100% sure what happens when farm saving. I'm assuming you just pay the BIPO royalty (£33/ha) rather than both the BSPB and BIPO levies but I don't know for definite.

 

[California]

Why price BYDV tolerance against Deter? Why not use two applications of pyrethroid as the cost base?
I am in a very high risk area for BYDV and have never used Deter when available for control. I always relied on well timed pyrethroid sprays and never had any major issues.

I guess (and you can't blame them I suppose) they will charge whatever they think farmers will be willing to pay. Sounds like this year (albeit with very limited quantities) enough people have been willing to pay the price. £460/Ton + £180 Royalties was too much for us though.

 

[Barry]

Some calculations to help clarify things.

Let us say a tonne of certified C2 winter wheat seed normally costs £450 per tonne within that price is approximately £100 per tonne for royalty (that is the rough royalty price for new varieties coming through). If you are purchasing a BIPO variety it has no royalty upfront and therefore should (accepting normal supply and demand situations) cost around £350 per tonne.

If you drill at 180 kg per hectare you will get approximately 5.5ha to the tonne of seed. An equivalent BIPO royalty would therefore be
£100/5.5 = £18.18 per ha.

So £450 per tonne for certified seed including royalty is (at 180 kg per hectare) equivalent in cost to £350 for certified seed excluding royalty and an £18.18 per hectare BIPO royalty.

I accept that BIPO is different in that you paid the same royalty rate per hectare for certified or farm saved seed and that some of you won't accept that.

But the current route of setting royalties within the seed price means that if a breeder introduces a new trait that brings advantages such as BYDV tolerance/resistance, if the royalty rate on certified seed is raised by a significant value the farm saved rate does not change. Which leads to a much bigger difference between certified seed cost and farm saved seed cost that will inevitably mean less certified sales and lower returns for the breeder.

Hence you can see why some breeders are looking at BIPO as a route to provide a 'balanced' royalty income between certified and farm saved seed.

PS don't shoot the messenger I'm just trying to explain the logic as to why this is happening..!!
And this is not new, I have emails about BIPO going back to 2009. And varieties came into the market with BIPO in 2010.

 

[An Gof]

It

Some calculations to help clarify things.

Let us say a tonne of certified C2 winter wheat seed normally costs £450 per tonne within that price is approximately £100 per tonne for royalty (that is the rough royalty price for new varieties coming through). If you are purchasing a BIPO variety it has no royalty upfront and therefore should (accepting normal supply and demand situations) cost around £350 per tonne.

If you drill at 180 kg per hectare you will get approximately 5.5ha to the tonne of seed. An equivalent BIPO royalty would therefore be
£100/5.5 = £18.18 per ha.

So £450 per tonne for certified seed including royalty is (at 180 kg per hectare) equivalent in cost to £350 for certified seed excluding royalty and an £18.18 per hectare BIPO royalty.

I accept that BIPO is different in that you paid the same royalty rate per hectare for certified or farm saved seed and that some of you won't accept that.

But the current route of setting royalties within the seed price means that if a breeder introduces a new trait that brings advantages such as BYDV tolerance/resistance, if the royalty rate on certified seed is raised by a significant value the farm saved rate does not change. Which leads to a much bigger difference between certified seed cost and farm saved seed cost that will inevitably mean less certified sales and lower returns for the breeder.

Hence you can see why some breeders are looking at BIPO as a route to provide a 'balanced' royalty income between certified and farm saved seed.

PS don't shoot the messenger I'm just trying to explain the logic as to why this is happening..!!
And this is not new, I have emails about BIPO going back to 2009. And varieties came into the market with BIPO in 2010.

It did first surface many years ago due to certain protagonists. Many were uncomfortable at the time and if I remember correctly if was of les consequence being confined mainly to some pulses and oats.
However there seems a sudden upsurge in use and breeding companies, who once were fully committed to BSPB scheme, are choosing to jump on the bandwagon. This is having a deleterious impact on the “Fair Play” scheme that works between growers and breeders.
I shall make a conscious decision to resist buying any BIPO varieties for as long as possible. If all other growers did the same we would be able to maintain the scheme we have which gives a “sensible reduction” for FSS and without signing away details and inspections on your own private Buisness.

 

[teslacoils]

Better variety = gets on the list = more people buy it = more royalty. No need for extra royalty due to a new trait.

Despite midge resistance etc in my new stuff, I'm not getting more yield than from Clare or Consort anyway.

Folk will buy it if it's any good. We need to try very hard to resist stuff like this / packaged agronomy and the like. Together we are strong - sadly we are weak.

 

[California]

Some calculations to help clarify things.

Let us say a tonne of certified C2 winter wheat seed normally costs £450 per tonne within that price is approximately £100 per tonne for royalty (that is the rough royalty price for new varieties coming through). If you are purchasing a BIPO variety it has no royalty upfront and therefore should (accepting normal supply and demand situations) cost around £350 per tonne.

If you drill at 180 kg per hectare you will get approximately 5.5ha to the tonne of seed. An equivalent BIPO royalty would therefore be
£100/5.5 = £18.18 per ha.

So £450 per tonne for certified seed including royalty is (at 180 kg per hectare) equivalent in cost to £350 for certified seed excluding royalty and an £18.18 per hectare BIPO royalty.

I accept that BIPO is different in that you paid the same royalty rate per hectare for certified or farm saved seed and that some of you won't accept that.

But the current route of setting royalties within the seed price means that if a breeder introduces a new trait that brings advantages such as BYDV tolerance/resistance, if the royalty rate on certified seed is raised by a significant value the farm saved rate does not change. Which leads to a much bigger difference between certified seed cost and farm saved seed cost that will inevitably mean less certified sales and lower returns for the breeder.

Hence you can see why some breeders are looking at BIPO as a route to provide a 'balanced' royalty income between certified and farm saved seed.

PS don't shoot the messenger I'm just trying to explain the logic as to why this is happening..!!
And this is not new, I have emails about BIPO going back to 2009. And varieties came into the market with BIPO in 2010.

Thanks for your explanation Barry. What I don't understand is where the £18.18 came from? Does this mean that my figures are wrong?
I was quoted £460/Ton for RGT Wolverine (including single purpose dressing) + BIPO royalty.
Looking at the BIPO website the royalty for RGT Wolverine is £33/ha.
A ton of seed at our normal sowing rate does 5.5ha
5.5 x £33 = 181.50
£460 (physical seed) + 181.50 = £641.50
A ton of a standard variety eg. Gleam / Gravity = Around £390 inc. royalty and spd.
Therefore BYDV tolerance (not including other agronomic failings, lower yield, no OWBM resistance etc.) = Approximately £250/Ton Premium?
Or have I misunderstood?