C4 - ‘Battle for Britain’ 1984 Miner’s Strike

[Johnnyboxer]

Worth a watch - I watched part one tonight and it focused on Shirebrook pit & village and the division in the community at the time
Some parallels from 20th Century mining, with farming in the 21st Century
Break the dominance of the miners and then close the pits (despite those pits sitting on 80-100 years of coal seams) & then import subsidised coal from Europe
Seems like it’s all happening again now in Britain - to break farming, end production subsidies and encourage growing wild bird seed and wild flowers
Then import cheap subsidised grain from mainland Europe and feed the nation
Give away energy security
Give away food security
Give away primary industry security (steel and manufacturing)
Strange bunch these Tories
Divide & Conquer… I guess

 

[Danllan]

It's not a good analogy, some comparisons but a fundamental flaw... a lot of UK ag can be competitive with anywhere if allowed to act as businesses should, rather than as subsidy junkies. Whereas there was simply no way that 18 inch coal seams hundreds of feet underground could ever hope to compete with 20 foot seams near the surface, even when on the other side of the world.

 

[Bigsingle]

My old dad said they would do that to farmers one day and that day is get nearer.

 

[Johnnyboxer]

It's not a good analogy, some comparisons but a fundamental flaw... a lot of UK ag can be competitive with anywhere if allowed to act as businesses should, rather than as subsidy junkies. Whereas there was simply no way that 18 inch coal seams hundreds of feet underground could ever hope to compete with 20 foot seams near the surface, even when on the other side of the world.

Not entirely
UK coal could compete with anywhere in the world, in terms of productivity if they could compete on equal terms, especially the modern Yorkshire super pits
So, how will uk agriculture compete on equal terms with our mainland European cousins when they are still receiving subsidies?

Looks like we’ll be importing more and more food in future

 

[Johnnyboxer]

My old dad said they would do that to farmers one day and that day is getting nearer.

True enough
I think we’ll be growing wild bird seed, while ‘Rome burns’

 

[Bigsingle]

My dad went down the pit once when he was a teenager but said farming was bad but down pit was worse, those miners weren't afraid of hard work that's for sure.

 

[Swarfmonkey]

UK coal could compete with anywhere in the world, in terms of productivity if they could compete on equal terms, especially the modern Yorkshire super pits

I couldn't see the UK competing in terms of productivity with the giant open cast pits you'll find in places like Germany, the US and Colombia. The amount of coal they can shift per hour in those mines is mind boggling.

 

[ollie989898]

Even if the UK had underground seems 20 foot thick and no one complained about coal production, the industry wouldn't be employing the thousands of guys it did because it is all automated these days. A handful of guys can run a machine that sends up hundreds of tonnes an hour. You don't want hundreds of blokes down there in an environment that could be loaded with methane, radon and huge machines that chew rocks for a living.

 

[Jonp]

At the same time as the miners strikes were in full swing I worked for a seismic survey company. We drilled in Scotland, around Retford and Scunthorpe, in Kent and in the south Wales valleys especially around Ammanford. This was to examine the geology of the coal reserves. Most mines had extracted the shallow easy coal and were mining deeper heavily faulted and displaced coal seams that would require substantial investment in machinery and working practices to keep them working. With the move away from coal generation or the need for coke coal for steel production etc ,political decisions were made to remove all state support and the mines closed.
Coal could be imported from subsidised countries at lower cost.
There are still substantial coal reserves in this country.
If you want to subsidise jobs and communities or subsidise life on the dole with a costly collapse of communities is a political choice as much as an economic one.
GE soon, time to choose

 

[BredRedHfd]

Worth a watch - I watched part one tonight and it focused on Shirebrook pit & village and the division in the community at the time
Some parallels from 20th Century mining, with farming in the 21st Century
Break the dominance of the miners and then close the pits (despite those pits sitting on 80-100 years of coal seams) & then import subsidised coal from Europe
Seems like it’s all happening again now in Britain - to break farming, end production subsidies and encourage growing wild bird seed and wild flowers
Then import cheap subsidised grain from mainland Europe and feed the nation
Give away energy security
Give away food security
Give away primary industry security (steel and manufacturing)
Strange bunch these Tories
Divide & Conquer… I guess

Yes, saw that. Not far from me. Can just remember it as I was only a nipper. Friend farms next door. Used to be pits every couple miles in this area. Like another world looking back.

 

[Johnnyboxer]

At the same time as the miners strikes were in full swing I worked for a seismic survey company. We drilled in Scotland, around Retford and Scunthorpe, in Kent and in the south Wales valleys especially around Ammanford. This was to examine the geology of the coal reserves. Most mines had extracted the shallow easy coal and were mining deeper heavily faulted and displaced coal seams that would require substantial investment in machinery and working practices to keep them working. With the move away from coal generation or the need for coke coal for steel production etc ,political decisions were made to remove all state support and the mines closed.
Coal could be imported from subsidised countries at lower cost.
There are still substantial coal reserves in this country.
If you want to subsidise jobs and communities or subsidise life on the dole with a costly collapse of communities is a political choice as much as an economic one.
GE soon, time to choose

There’s a lesson to see, right there
A parallel with uk farming in 2024
Choose wisely in this year’s GE, is a good point

 

[Johnnyboxer]

Even if the UK had underground seems 20 foot thick and no one complained about coal production, the industry wouldn't be employing the thousands of guys it did because it is all automated these days. A handful of guys can run a machine that sends up hundreds of tonnes an hour. You don't want hundreds of blokes down there in an environment that could be loaded with methane, radon and huge machines that chew rocks for a living.

View attachment 1160757

You missed the whole point …..again

In the 1980’s there were probably 5 men on a 1000 acre arable farm
Now there can be just one man on 1000 acres, 40 years later
Mechanisation wasn’t my point

My point is that it was political with 1000’s of miners in 1980’s and now 40 years later it’s political again, with uk farming and farmers, this programme was a reminder of what a government can and will do to an industry….if it chooses
They will just create the right conditions to import what they need, if they so desire that it’s best for their own political needs

 

[Hilly]

My dad went down the pit once when he was a teenager but said farming was bad but down pit was worse, those miners weren't afraid of hard work that's for sure.

My grandfather was down the pit his entire working life , he was a intelligent guy and hated it with a passion , however he used to say hed rather be down the pit as be a farmer or a fisher man ! I can understand the fisherman bit but could never get my head around why he thought farming was worse than coal ! Maybe one of us one day will have a career that is swimmimg
With the tide as mining and farming feels like swimming against the tide for sure !

 

[bluebell]

johnnyboxer, your right, where does all this end? loss of the ability to make steel next? Yet theres increasing talk of the UK should start getting ready with a possible war with russia? With what? by who? and wheres the money to fund all this to come from, these are my questions id like to ask?

 

[egbert]

There is barely an analogy beyond the most superficial.

Thatcher took on the miners because they'd been increasingly trying to hold the country to ransom, led by a fanatic loon who couldn't see beyond the end of the nose on his face.
(I realise the TV show is one of several, but it barely touched on the background)
Like so much UK industry and employment destroyed by the unions, they were the architects of their own demise.
I'm deeply sorry for those who didn't want to go along with the idiots.

 

[bluebell]

All very well these "retired" generals, on big fat pensions, uttering this, and on a academic level they are right? But ask yourself a very simple question, why why have the armed forces been continally cut over the years, and bases sold off etc? To pay for the burgening, nhs, welfare bill for one?

 

[lloyd]

At the same time as the miners strikes were in full swing I worked for a seismic survey company. We drilled in Scotland, around Retford and Scunthorpe, in Kent and in the south Wales valleys especially around Ammanford. This was to examine the geology of the coal reserves. Most mines had extracted the shallow easy coal and were mining deeper heavily faulted and displaced coal seams that would require substantial investment in machinery and working practices to keep them working. With the move away from coal generation or the need for coke coal for steel production etc ,political decisions were made to remove all state support and the mines closed.
Coal could be imported from subsidised countries at lower cost.
There are still substantial coal reserves in this country.
If you want to subsidise jobs and communities or subsidise life on the dole with a costly collapse of communities is a political choice as much as an economic one.
GE soon, time to choose

I think you've summed it up well there was no real plan to replace the
jobs, and hence the communities suffered the consequences of Thatchers fight
with the unions.Miners did a hard job but were reasonably well paid before her
draconian actions.It certainly hit beef sales after this event which shows that one
industry can have an effect on another.On a positive note the Welsh valleys are slowly recovering from the enviromental damage .

 

[Rnold]

I was brought up in a mining community . Friends worked in the pits both underground and in management at different levels. I can remember the conversations around productivity etc, and remember divisions caused by the strike but what I have always wondered and with benefit of hindsight was this the opening round in the decarbonisation of Britain?
Was this being discussed in whitehall at the time?

 

[Wood field]

My grandfather was down the pit his entire working life , he was a intelligent guy and hated it with a passion , however he used to say hed rather be down the pit as be a farmer or a fisher man ! I can understand the fisherman bit but could never get my head around why he thought farming was worse than coal ! Maybe one of us one day will have a career that is swimmimg
With the tide as mining and farming feels like swimming against the tide for sure !

We are surrounded by a moor that was extensively mined for both coal and fire clay.
The old chap who we bought part of the farm still tells stories about the various shallow drift mines , his brother worked down the pits all of his life so there father made him stay on the farm .
Old guys brother apparently loved the life of a coal miner and only on retirement would come back and help his brother on the farm.
They say there’s tonnes of coal under the moor still

 

[lloyd]

Not entirely
UK coal could compete with anywhere in the world, in terms of productivity if they could compete on equal terms, especially the modern Yorkshire super pits
So, how will uk agriculture compete on equal terms with our mainland European cousins when they are still receiving subsidies?

Looks like we’ll be importing more and more food in future

Not just the EU the USA arable farming is highly subsidised.
Anyone who thinks a UK arable farmer can compete with the average
American farmer who has scale ,less enviromental regulation,GM technology
and pp insurance is utterly deluded.